Do most/many social movements not do the all three at the same time? For instance, demanding that voting rights acts should be passed while simultaneously trying to nudge people and politicians to support it
Veganism isn’t a social movement. It’s a culture movement closer to religion than anything. It has special dietary and lifestyle dogma that one must adhere to in order to be a member of the group.
It merely attempts to leverage existing social movements to push its much larger agenda, as any religion does.
I think that’s misunderstanding the goals of those who advocate for it. Animal rights is the movement. Veganism is advocated as a means to achieve that end by stopping the support of the harm within animal agriculture & factory farming
So, like, a few years ago, I had this co-worker. She was vegan in the “annoying” way. Most vegans? You wouldn’t know it unless you knew them. In any case that wasn’t her.
She wasted no time telling everyone that they weren’t allowed to bring meat into the office- that the smell of it made her ill, and so, we had to be vegan to.
Well. Unfortunately for her that’s not a reasonable accommodation. Not that we didn’t try to make some effort (not microwaving food when she’s in the break room, etc,)(to be fair, our attempt to be reasonable ended after about the third sign declaring the office meat-free.)
In any case she waged a small war on it over the course of a few days- mostly hanging up passive aggressive signs and being snippy whenever some one walked by with anything even vaguely meat like, (including, in point of fact leftover mushroom stew that is, in fact, vegan. It’s why I think she was full of shit about the smell making her ill.)
Things came to a head when she decided it was a good idea to to go into the break room fridge and toss everything into the garbage. (Including another coworkers veg fried rice with crispy tofu,)
Now, do you think that anyone in that office was persuaded to go vegan?
Or do you imagine that HR fired her ass for being an overbearing, condescending bitch- and a thief as well?
I’ll give you a hint: the steaks my boss got and I grilled for lunch were delicious.
The point being: food is integral to culture, and in many ways, part of how we socialize. It’s not something that you can just demand we change and not expect people to react well to.
Making arguments are all well and good, but they won’t really persuade anyone either. You’re literally talking about changing a few millennia of cultural norms.
Sure we can have that discussion, but really, if you have to get preachy, you have to get demanding or “dramatic” like my ex-coworker…. All it does is makes people remember that rather than the actual impactful points of the discussion.
More people are going vegan than ever before as 88 million have went vegan. The chauvinists said the same thing towards those “crazy” feminists and abolitionists.
I will not be kind to those who are animal abusers. Stop it and be better. You did not address the examples of animal abuse I mentioned as that is permissible in your eyes.
My comrade in veganism: this is not the way. Kindness is the only way your message will be heard. If Daryl Davis (a black man) can convince hundreds of KKK members to leave the organization by befriending them and forging relationships, sometimes over years, then you can tone it down and be kind to someone who doesn’t share your views and wants to eat a cheeseburger. Doesnt make them “right”, but your approach just makes you insufferable in the eyes of people you don’t agree with, which is almost everyone. Trust me, I’ve been doing it for decades and you are not setting a good example for the chill vegans out there. Calm down, love people regardless of their differences, there is enough division in the world. Do not turn your ethics into religious fundamentalism. You can control your behavior and you can be a good ambassador. In short: don’t be a smug asshole that thinks they are superior for any reason.
Unfortunately, there are also vegans who insist raising bees for their honey “harms” beings literally too dumb to feel pain. So their religion loses points by sharing a name with the more illogical of their members.
Also bees can and will fuck off if not taken care of properly. They can just fly away, they arent caged or something. The bees being harmed to make honey is literally the plot of bee movie, do you want to be associated with fucke Jerry Seinfeld?
Do most/many social movements not do the all three at the same time? For instance, demanding that voting rights acts should be passed while simultaneously trying to nudge people and politicians to support it
Voting rights =/= dietary choices.
One thing is others imposing a lack of autonomy on others (not allowing certain people to vote)
The other thing is a personal choice that no one is stopping you from making.
Veganism isn’t a social movement. It’s a culture movement closer to religion than anything. It has special dietary and lifestyle dogma that one must adhere to in order to be a member of the group.
It merely attempts to leverage existing social movements to push its much larger agenda, as any religion does.
I think that’s misunderstanding the goals of those who advocate for it. Animal rights is the movement. Veganism is advocated as a means to achieve that end by stopping the support of the harm within animal agriculture & factory farming
So, like, a few years ago, I had this co-worker. She was vegan in the “annoying” way. Most vegans? You wouldn’t know it unless you knew them. In any case that wasn’t her.
She wasted no time telling everyone that they weren’t allowed to bring meat into the office- that the smell of it made her ill, and so, we had to be vegan to.
Well. Unfortunately for her that’s not a reasonable accommodation. Not that we didn’t try to make some effort (not microwaving food when she’s in the break room, etc,)(to be fair, our attempt to be reasonable ended after about the third sign declaring the office meat-free.)
In any case she waged a small war on it over the course of a few days- mostly hanging up passive aggressive signs and being snippy whenever some one walked by with anything even vaguely meat like, (including, in point of fact leftover mushroom stew that is, in fact, vegan. It’s why I think she was full of shit about the smell making her ill.)
Things came to a head when she decided it was a good idea to to go into the break room fridge and toss everything into the garbage. (Including another coworkers veg fried rice with crispy tofu,)
Now, do you think that anyone in that office was persuaded to go vegan?
Or do you imagine that HR fired her ass for being an overbearing, condescending bitch- and a thief as well?
I’ll give you a hint: the steaks my boss got and I grilled for lunch were delicious.
The point being: food is integral to culture, and in many ways, part of how we socialize. It’s not something that you can just demand we change and not expect people to react well to.
Making arguments are all well and good, but they won’t really persuade anyone either. You’re literally talking about changing a few millennia of cultural norms.
Sure we can have that discussion, but really, if you have to get preachy, you have to get demanding or “dramatic” like my ex-coworker…. All it does is makes people remember that rather than the actual impactful points of the discussion.
Removed by mod
You know. You’re missing the point?
Your methods do not work. You know that. You can see the results.
All people are going to remember from your interactions is that you were a preachy jerk.
And it’s yet another interaction that reinforces the image that all vegans are preachy jerks- even if it is far from the truth.
You are literally hurting your cause.
More people are going vegan than ever before as 88 million have went vegan. The chauvinists said the same thing towards those “crazy” feminists and abolitionists.
I will not be kind to those who are animal abusers. Stop it and be better. You did not address the examples of animal abuse I mentioned as that is permissible in your eyes.
My comrade in veganism: this is not the way. Kindness is the only way your message will be heard. If Daryl Davis (a black man) can convince hundreds of KKK members to leave the organization by befriending them and forging relationships, sometimes over years, then you can tone it down and be kind to someone who doesn’t share your views and wants to eat a cheeseburger. Doesnt make them “right”, but your approach just makes you insufferable in the eyes of people you don’t agree with, which is almost everyone. Trust me, I’ve been doing it for decades and you are not setting a good example for the chill vegans out there. Calm down, love people regardless of their differences, there is enough division in the world. Do not turn your ethics into religious fundamentalism. You can control your behavior and you can be a good ambassador. In short: don’t be a smug asshole that thinks they are superior for any reason.
it doesn’t seem to be effective at reducing or even stopping the growth of the meat industry
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-production-tonnes?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL
most people feel the same way.
I don’t need to address anything.
You don’t need to either. That’s your choice.
But once again- you do seem to want to persuade people…. And I’m trying to help you do that. You do you, but you’re not going to get very far.
You’re not vegan so you’re not the best person to ask for persuasion, I would rather ask Ed Winters or Melanie Joy for advice.
Though its good you’re somewhat supportive ;)
you should give a trigger warning when you link gore
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do.
Unfortunately, there are also vegans who insist raising bees for their honey “harms” beings literally too dumb to feel pain. So their religion loses points by sharing a name with the more illogical of their members.
Also bees can and will fuck off if not taken care of properly. They can just fly away, they arent caged or something. The bees being harmed to make honey is literally the plot of bee movie, do you want to be associated with fucke Jerry Seinfeld?