• sab@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    One important thing is that you have potential. ChatGDP will write something alright-ish, but it’s literally impossible for it to move beyond that. It doesn’t have the power of creativity.

    Writing is painful, but it also helps us think clearer about our work and contribution. I think it’s an important part of the process of doing science, no matter which field. And one gets better at it with training.

    • PoisonedPrisonPanda@discuss.tchncs.de
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      1 year ago

      I dont need it to be beyond that? It does what I told it. And if I am creative enough to get my preferred output its great. I have still to decide if Ill use it.

      Its a tool which can be used by people and helps with work.

      I think it’s an important part of the process of doing science, no matter which field. And one gets better at it with training

      Sorry but this expression is probably a similar one when paper writting shifted to digital only format or when the typewriter was introduced.

      Boomer tell me the same with printed paper. “oNlY whEn ItS PriNtED yOu cAn rEaD pRoberly”

      Thats bullshit its just fear of the something new and convenience of routine.

      Nothing personal against you. I welcome any tool that helps me.

      • bane_killgrind@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        So I’m not sure it’s helping you.

        You would refrain from doing the work of organizing the concept in your head into a clearly communicable explanation of the concept.

        • PoisonedPrisonPanda@discuss.tchncs.de
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          1 year ago

          I think of it as in another anology.

          Compare a screwdriver with a power tool.

          Does the convenient solution hinder you from building your house simply because you cant “feel” the strength of the wood while turning the screw in?

          i doubt.

          The things you mentioned are coming into play when people think of AI as a god mode. As a user you are solely responsible for how to use a tool. If the user overestimates the power of the tool or use it for the wrong things. Its the users fault.

          The scientist is still a scientist. Which is the author of the paper. Not gpt because it writes filler text or puts the scientists thoughts into sentences.

          The context is still at the scientists plate. If the scientist does a poorly job at reviewing the gpts output. Gpt cant be faulted.

          • bane_killgrind@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            A research paper is not bulk work like a house. It’s more like a watch, and a watchmaker using a screw gun is daft.

            • PoisonedPrisonPanda@discuss.tchncs.de
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              1 year ago

              Thats another point. Fair enough.

              But still I dont think that science will stall just because of chatgpt.

              Journalism? Will for sure. But scientific publications have a systemic problem (like publisher-polism, pubscores etc) And outsourcing writing work to chargpt is - in my opinion - non of them.

              • bane_killgrind@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Sure, but using bad tools to do things is going to get you worse results that using the right tools. If we define worse as “less volume” then sure GPT is fine.

      • Vilian@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        a test for creativity seriously that work? also after scraping the entire of internet of course someone could think that, ask any programmer and they gonna explain that the IA don’t create anything, it can’t even do basic msth because it don’t gave logic in that,maybe one day, but not with chatgpt of today

        • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Yes, a test for creativity. If you’re going to say something “doesn’t have the power of creativity” then it behooves you to accept the notion that creativity is measurable.

        • boredazfcuk@mastodon.social
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          1 year ago

          @Vilian @FaceDeer I agree. I’m no programmer but do a fair bit of Linux/powershell/bash scripting. Virtually all the code that ChatGPT gives me is wrong. You tell it the errors, and it gives you a modified script with errors, point out those errors and it’s go back to its first answer. The only thing it is useful for is writing lots of basic code, really quickly. I can just copy/paste then start debugging.

          • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I am a programmer and I’ve found ChatGPT to be able to produce plenty of good, useful code. I haven’t encountered the problems you’re describing in correcting its errors, perhaps you’re not prompting it well.

              • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                So you’re telling me that the code it generated for me wasn’t good and useful, and that when I told it to correct errors it actually did introduce new errors and restore old ones, contrary to what I just said? Guess all that stuff I got done using its help didn’t actually get done after all and I’m descending ever deeper into a world of delusion, thinking my projects are finished and working when in fact they aren’t.

                Obviously if you’re trying to get it to use APIs from after 2021 that’s not going to work. It also won’t bake you a cake if you ask it to. Use tools for the tasks they’re good for, don’t use them for things you know they can’t do.

                • boredazfcuk@mastodon.social
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                  1 year ago

                  @FaceDeer @floofloof @henfredemars @PoisonedPrisonPanda @sab @Vilian the 500 char limit made me pick the first failure that spring to mind. Maybe you forget, but AI wasn’t trained on “good” data. It was trained “all” data and large amounts of that is plain wrong. People with problems pasting blocks of code and responses correcting a single line. ChatGPT isn’t smart enough to merge those into a single block of working code.

                  • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    You have to tell ChatGPT that you want good code, then.

                    I’m actually serious. If you just ask for something generic, it’ll assume you want something generic. If you ask it for something that’s “high efficiency, well commented and maintainable” then it’s going to know you wanted that and give you something more along those lines. Just like if you asked it for something “that looks crappy and sloppy, like an amateur wrote it.”

                    Very often when people complain about ChatGPT’s “style” or say they can immediately spot something that “sounds like” ChatGPT it’s because they’re not giving it good directions. It can’t read your mind. Yet.

        • sab@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          This is the key - it does not create, it can only copy. Which is good enough to fool us - there’s enough stuff to copy out there that you can spend your whole life copying other people and nobody will ever notice you’re not actually creating anything new. What’s more, you’ll probably come across as pretty clever. But you’re not creating anything new.

          For me, this poses an existential threat to academia. It might halt development in the field without researchers even noticing: Their words look fine, as if they had thought it through, and they of course read it to make sure it’s logically consistent. However, the creative force is gone. Nothing new will come under the sun - the kind of new thoughts that can only be made by creative humans thinking new thoughts that have never been put on paper before.

          If we give up that, what’s even the point of doing science in the first place.

          • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            This is the key - it does not create, it can only copy.

            I have asked ChatGPT to write poetry on subjects that I know with great certainty have never had poems written about them.

            You can of course shuffle around the meanings of “create” and “copy” to try to accommodate that, but eventually you end up with a “copying” process that’s so flexible and malleable that it might as well be creativity. It’s not like what comes out of human brains isn’t based on stuff that went into them earlier either.

          • Sinnerman@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            There’s a difference between:

            1. Using ChatGPT to help write parts of the text in the same way you’d use a grammar- or spell-checker (e.g. if English isn’t your first language) after you’ve finished the experiments

            2. Using ChatGPT to write a paper without even doing any experiments

            Clearly the second is academic misconduct. The first one is a lot more defensible.

            • sab@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Yes, absolutely. But I still think it has its dangers.

              Using it to write the introduction doesn’t change the substance of the paper, yet it does provide the framework for how the reader interprets it, and also often decides whether it’ll be read at all.

              Maybe worse, I find that it’s oftem in the painful writing and rewriting of the introduction and conclusion that I truly understand my own contribution - I’ve done the analysis and all that, but in forcing myself to think about the relevance for the field and the reader I also bring myself to better understand what the paper means in a deeper sense. I believe this kind of deep thinking at the end of the process is incredibly valuable, and it’s what I’m afraid we might be losing with AI.