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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: July 5th, 2023

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  • Only if your conception of better/worse is focussed on user count rather than user quality.

    No, decidedly not. Unless out there there is an instance whose users are all all-around paste eaters, every instance has some users worth keeping in some conversation, furthermore political alignment says nothing about insight or competence in fields unrelated to politics.

    A nazi is just as likely to know how to fix an obscure bug in some game or program than a tankie or a liberal, people are more complicated than their political allegiances and blanket removing an instance does us a disservice as much as it does them.

    Refraining from defederation won’t change that.

    Refraining from making the fediverse an archipelago where people refuse to talk to anyone who had the misfortune of picking the wrong instance is going to make that better, yes.

    Not everyone who made an instance on lemmy.ml is a tankie. I almost did, and the only reason I didn’t is that they very gracefully and clearly state that Lemmy.ml is the flagship but not the largest instance.


  • Tankie mods don’t moderate in good faith though

    Yeah, that’s why I’m suggesting making mods of other instances review ban appeals.

    If you ban someone because you’re butthurt your precious red-brown alliance is being besmirched, mods from instances that don’t suck Stalin’s dick on the daily will hopefully call you out on it and force you to reverse the ban or defederate.

    My hope is to make it so defederation is not something we do to undesirable instances, but that they do to themselves.

    The latter is preferable because it requires an instance to be so ideologically far gone that its own denizens would agree with this over replacing the mod team, whereas the former only really needs a bad enough opinion of the instance from its neighbours, which IMO is not a good standard.


  • Man, I genuinely don’t know.

    I’d expect this to be some sort of public cross-instance structure that is readonly to users so we could spectate the conversations and maybe up/downvote, where you could see what essentially amounts to the meeting minutes in the form of a normal thread?

    But before we even get there there’d need to be an agreement and either a fork of the core lemmy code to implement this or we’d need to get the lemmy devs on board and LMAO good luck with that, we’re literally discussing creating a system to divest them of their power and they’re ideologically authoritarian.


  • MolochAlter@lemmy.worldtoFediverse@lemmy.worldLemmy.ml tankie censorship problem
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    23 days ago

    I fucking hate tankies, but.

    The problem i have, every time this conversation happens, is that cutting them out doesn’t solve anything, and that I don’t want to be coddled.

    The 2 main issues we have, as lemmy at large, is that there are some wildly uneven standards enforced across instances and that we have no say about that. There was that hugbox instance that would ban people for being rude and yeeted itself into the void, there was hexbear that got de-federated for its mods actively encouraging being subversive (despite its users receiving intolerable psychic damage after 5 minutes in any lib space where people are free to call them names, or was that lemmygrad?) and now we’re talking about removing lemmy.ml for the fact that its mods are somehow sentient pieces of actual shit.

    And while I agree to all of those reasons, I don’t think defederating is the answer.

    Every time we fragment the fediverse we make it overall worse.

    Average users don’t even understand what they’re looking at when it comes to decentralized networks, let alone can they understand that there’s politicking between instances and such. If I were told “you can make an account on instance x or y, but they don’t talk to eachother so if you want to see stuff on instance y you can’t make an account on instance x” as a rando, I would go back to reddit, the only reason I didn’t is that i really hate the app and I am tech/net savvy enough to handle this.


    I am a tad more radical when it comes to speech than most, and I accept that, but I do believe that these people have no power so long as they can’t abuse moderation, so the answer to the question “how do we handle open propagandists”, to me, is to create perhaps a “moderation neutrality charter” and making it very clear which instances subscribe to it, having each instance’s moderation team maybe be required to weigh in on appeals to bans from other instances to ensure a certain amount of balance.

    That would take care of that real quick. They can subscribe to the charter and start abiding by neutral moderation standards agreed to across the board by some democratic standard, or they can defederate themselves.

    That’s actually something twitter does right with the idea of community notes, that for the note to be published it needs to be agreed on by multiple parties that don’t usually agree in those votes, to ensure there is a bipartisan agreement.

    I know this is perhaps too lofty for a ragtag group of essentially microblogging self-hosters, but a man can dream.


  • Realistically? The way newspapers were, you have a profit driven business where the client is the reader. Buy the paper, read the articles.

    The reality is that that is never gonna happen again; the free alternatives are exactly as shit as the paid ones, so why would I waste my money?

    Journalism had devolved into sensationalism made to drive sales to foster ad buys already well before social media and the web made this exponentially worse, at this point, follow the scant few journalists who don’t suck and go from there.

    Best thing about this is that everyone will think I’m talking about any amount of pundits depending on their and my political alignment, and that makes it funnier to me.




  • Oh I am well aware, I just wanted to call out this bullshit behaviour because it’s frankly the major reason why the right keeps gaining support.

    The left looks weak, disharmonious, and more preoccupied with adventist “after the revolution” bullshit than with actually explaining their ideas and more importantly their policy positions.

    The average rightoid has very quick and snappy numbers and policies they can rattle off at a moment’s notice, with (often simplistic or even incorrect) explanations as to how and why they will work.

    Meanwhile I have seen so much fucking economic illiteracy about UBI and the labor theory of value and their relationship to scarcity and actual economics on this site it makes me want to jump out of a window.

    Right wingers are at least able to explain a leftist point of view. Their explanation will probably be unflattering, but it will be more or less accurate. I have not seen a single leftist (and this is why I decided to poke here) being able to do the same. When faced with an unaligned or questioning person their only recourses are shaming/cautioning (like in this case) or condemning as already an enemy anyway.

    I am a liberal, so depending on how far left you are, I am either already a fascist, or I’m a fascist in potentia. Believe it or not, I am neither, and would much rather the left do its part in contrasting the rise of fascism rather than enabling it by being a terrible at opposing it, which includes winning the battle for the hearts and minds of the people, which y’all are doing really poorly at right now.




  • Raising the floor doesn’t mean raising all wages.if when raising minimum wage every other wage were increased by the same amount you’d see a very different pattern.

    Also, nowhere tried UBI uniformly to every member of the country. The problem with UBI is that testing it with a subset of the population doesn’t have any predictive power because these people individually exist in a society that doesn’t have UBI.

    Think about it this way: the lowest amount of money a person needs to survive is your break even point. Ideally, your minimum wage should be a little higher than that so people can save some money for emergencies etc.

    For the sake of ease of use let’s make that our unit of value, call it 1L for Life.

    So, every person working (ideally) receives at least 1L, if you’re not working you either have savings worth 1L for the span of time you won’t work, or you’ll have to incur debt or other hardships.

    Now, if you took absolutely everyone, working or not, and gave them, say, 0.5L for free, this won’t raise the floor, it’ll mean everyone will.amke at least 1.5L if working, 0.5L if not.

    This leads to either lowering of wages back to a level where the total is closer to 1L, or the increase of the minimum cost of living to 1.5L, or more likely a mix of the two.

    The reason why money is valuable isn’t random, it’s because money is finite and scarce.

    The amount everyone has is the null amount whether that is 0 or 100L, because it’s the differential between your income and that null amount that gives it purchasing power.

    Look at the effects of the covid stimulus and bailouts on purchasing power, and you’ll see a much closer result to an actual UBI than looking at the european UBI trials which ended up being much closer to randomly giving welfare to people than actual UBI.