• jsomae@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    This is one of the more surprising reversals in leftist opinion over the last ten years.

    • Revan343@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      I mean, it’s not exactly a new opinion. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers should be frustrated, by force if necessary

    • Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I absolutely believe that giving guns to everybody is a really dumb idea. But if I was living in the present day US, I’d start stocking up on guns and ammo and practice shooting.

      • Jankatarch@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Maybe we can just pool together money and arm the unions. Imagine how hard mass-layoffs would be if unions had a missile launcher.

      • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        If it comes to the point when you need to use a gun to defend yourself, you’ve already lost. None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it. You can make a lot of things whole lot worse by introducing armed conflict to it, but nothing can be made better by it. If I was a conspiratorial type, I would say that making the left gun-happy is a psyop by fascists, because there is very little things is as dangerous to a healthy society as the ubiquity of guns, and fasch can’t thrive in a healthy society.

        • SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          This country is already lost.

          Not a single person in a position of power is willing to dethrone the oligarchs, it will only be done through violence.

          Either these are the tools that will change things, or the tools that will tak out as many of the enemy as possible before they kill you.

        • 0x0@lemmy.zip
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          4 months ago

          If it comes to the point when you need to use a gun to defend yourself, you’ve already lost.

          Did you miss the bit where people are being ICEd?
          They’ve already lost.

          • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            And shooting at ICE will make things substantially, distopially worse. It will either bring the true fascist regime of which this one is a pale shadow, or a civil war, and a civil war is basically an end of at least two generations, even if “good guys” win. However bad a life of a regular person is in the US right now, and it is bad for a lot of people, I can absolutely assure you, it’s nothing compared to life of a person in a country where civil war is happening. Or full blown authoritarianism for that matter.

        • nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it

          I think we are referring to other humans with guns, which can in fact be solved by shooting them. In fact, that’s SOP for SWAT, who are the kind of people you want well-armed … assuming you also have an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy to govern them.

          Root cause here is cultural. US needs denazification, according to the original pre-Putin definition of the word, exact same way post-WWII German society became… an inclusive, pluralistic, liberal democracy

        • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          None of the existential threats to a person in US, existing or future, can be solved by shooting at it.

          Wrong.

          Fascism is here. It is not an existential threat. And fascism always has to be responded to with force. Fascists do not respond to politely phrased requests or democratic elections.

          You can make a lot of things whole lot worse by introducing armed conflict to it, but nothing can be made better by it.

          Are you unaware of WW2?

          there is very little things is as dangerous to a healthy society as the ubiquity of guns

          This isn’t a healthy society.

          • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Fascism isn’t a guy you can shoot at. It’s a social disorder, and the best food for it is an inability of people to organise, to trust each other, to form communities that will recognise attempts of autocrats to usurp the power and to take your democracy away. And among the instruments of this social erosion is this fundamental fear people have of each other. Fear that exacerbated by ubiquity of guns, in part caused by it, and made substantially worse by it. Fascists want you to think in a framework of personal violence, they want you to dream about getting into direct fights, because that’s their whole world, that’s where they thrive. When they come to your house to throw you to jail for thoughtcrime, they want you to respond with shooting your gun at them. What they don’t want is for you to be connected to your neighbors, to your social group.

            Are you unaware of WW2?

            Are you by any chance a country in Europe in the middle of 20 century? Because if not, the WW2 isn’t an applicable example.

            This isn’t a healthy society.

            Yeah, for example y’all are too obsessed with guns

    • untorquer@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      It’s always been the case that if you go left far enough you get your guns back.

      • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        I’m aware, and I still believe this is a change in leftist opinion.

    • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      It’s true.

      But you have to respond to fascism with force.

      So it’s a necessary reversal.

      If we lived in a better society we wouldn’t need to have reversed on this topic and we’d still be trying to reduce the number of firearms. But we live in a stupid society that forces us to have to arm ourselves. That’s the current reality.

    • mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      it’s almost like people change their stances on things depending on the situation

      healthy country? kids shouldn’t have easy access to guns

      whatever the fuck is going on right now in the us? give everybody a gun without question and let’s see how it plays out. can’t be worse than an authoritarian government

      • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        idk why you said “it’s almost like,” as though you think I’m stupid for pointing out that it’s interesting that this has been a change in the left.

      • ssroxnak@lemmy.worldOP
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        4 months ago

        That’s not what it means. The militia part is the reason why they wrote the 2nd amendment. The People is who it’s for.