President Biden criticized news coverage of the U.S. economy as he faces growing backlash from voters over his handling of inflation. In brief remarks Saturday before boarding the presidential heli…
Personal feelings aside, those are the numbers. Empirical evidence that what people think is just plain wrong. Why? I suspect what Biden is saying is true.
Me and everybody I know are doing great. My empirical evidence seems to disagree with yours.
Too bad nothing can be done about that. If only someone, maybe a government agency, could collect all the data and determine how the country is doing as a whole.
Saying “the economy is turning up and things are getting better” when nothing changed is a lot different than saying “its all going to hell” when no one is struggling.
If you dont grok the difference, you were probably not at risk of the economy fucking you over like how people are frustrated about
But things have changed, that’s the point. While individual experiences vary, all the economic data this year has been pretty stellar.
Reducing inflation this fast without tanking the economy, and not just not tanking it, actually having pretty decent economic numbers is a major achievement.
When the Fed stated raising rates to curtail inflation almost everyone thought there was no way to do it without a recession, maybe a major one, and increasing unemployment 2-3X. The “soft landing” seemed like a naive hope. We’re not all the way there yet but it looks like they actually did it. Inflation is almost down to targets and at the same time, unemployment is still low, GDP growth is good, real wage growth beats inflation, etc.
It’s not all blowjobs and caviar for everyone but we were heading for a major disaster and it’s been avoided.
Except food is still extremely expensive, and real peoples dollars arent worth more, or getting paid more. The economic data doesnt seem to take into account things that actually matter to people who dont wear suits and golf.
The thing is, a lot of these “rich people” metrics have indirect effects on “normal people” metrics. So yes, while saying “the economy is good” doesn’t mean much right now, it means that normal people will hopefully not struggle as much soon.
You keep saying that, but that’s not what the data shows. It shows real wage growth is exceeding inflation. It’s also starting to show deflation across several categories of goods.
It sucks your wages haven’t kept up with inflation and maybe eggs at your grocery store aren’t any cheaper, but the data shows that your experience isn’t typical.
The typical experience is surprisingly good and getting better.
Everyone has personal experiences which shape their thinking, that doesn’t mean their thinking is correct or even any more true than someone else’s. I can trust that I feel what 2 feet is on a board, but it’s better if I measure it before I cut it.
If I want to measure a board, I don’t consult a magazine*. I use a tape measure.
Similarly, if I want to know how I’m doing financially, I’ll check my bank account balance before the network that continues to employ Jim Cramer.
*even if I were measuring in potrzebie, I would convert from the imperial units already on my tape measure instead of hunting down a copy of MAD Magazine issue 26. I respect Donald Knuth, but there are limits.
Oh wow. That CNBC article is conflating less inflation with deflation. And where they have to provide numbers they don’t tell you how that 1 percent decrease in chicken is after a huge run up. (And every other product in the grocery section there.)
I knew CNBC was an economic gaslighter but this is Fox News level of wordplay to make people think the opposite of what the actual information says. Even to the point of saying less inflation is deflation. Inflation is a measure of velocity. Going slower is not going in reverse.
And the Forbes one is a paywall.
The basic problem here is that while inflation is slowing and wages are rising, inflation being a net negative against wages for a single year isn’t enough. It’s not enough to make up all the ground lost to inflation over the decades, and the run away inflation we experienced recently. As a reminder, this is 2023. The Pandemic effectively ended in 2020. Three years ago. So what was net inflation in 2021 and 2022?
Well gee I actually have those numbers. 3.7 in 2021, and 7 in 2022. That’s net inflation, so inflation against median wage increase. The net inflation this year would need to be -10.7 to wipe out the difference created in those two years. We don’t have full numbers yet but it looks like about 5 percent median wage increase and 3 percent inflation.
So you have -2 net inflation this year. Yay. We’re still down by 8 points. But that’s okay it’s just a particularly big add to the 139 points we’re down since 1974.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/13/deflation-inflation-november-2023-in-one-chart.html
https://fortune.com/2023/12/12/wage-growth-exceeded-inflation-jec-democrats/
Those articles sure dont reflect the reality of me or anyone I know, by even a smidge
Personal feelings aside, those are the numbers. Empirical evidence that what people think is just plain wrong. Why? I suspect what Biden is saying is true.
Empirical evidence says I still have to skip grocery trips, and cant afford to fix my car.
So… I trust my lived in life over your numbers
Me and everybody I know are doing great. My empirical evidence seems to disagree with yours.
Too bad nothing can be done about that. If only someone, maybe a government agency, could collect all the data and determine how the country is doing as a whole.
Saying “the economy is turning up and things are getting better” when nothing changed is a lot different than saying “its all going to hell” when no one is struggling.
If you dont grok the difference, you were probably not at risk of the economy fucking you over like how people are frustrated about
But things have changed, that’s the point. While individual experiences vary, all the economic data this year has been pretty stellar.
Reducing inflation this fast without tanking the economy, and not just not tanking it, actually having pretty decent economic numbers is a major achievement.
When the Fed stated raising rates to curtail inflation almost everyone thought there was no way to do it without a recession, maybe a major one, and increasing unemployment 2-3X. The “soft landing” seemed like a naive hope. We’re not all the way there yet but it looks like they actually did it. Inflation is almost down to targets and at the same time, unemployment is still low, GDP growth is good, real wage growth beats inflation, etc.
It’s not all blowjobs and caviar for everyone but we were heading for a major disaster and it’s been avoided.
Except food is still extremely expensive, and real peoples dollars arent worth more, or getting paid more. The economic data doesnt seem to take into account things that actually matter to people who dont wear suits and golf.
The thing is, a lot of these “rich people” metrics have indirect effects on “normal people” metrics. So yes, while saying “the economy is good” doesn’t mean much right now, it means that normal people will hopefully not struggle as much soon.
You keep saying that, but that’s not what the data shows. It shows real wage growth is exceeding inflation. It’s also starting to show deflation across several categories of goods.
It sucks your wages haven’t kept up with inflation and maybe eggs at your grocery store aren’t any cheaper, but the data shows that your experience isn’t typical.
The typical experience is surprisingly good and getting better.
~Yall this is NOT empirical, but anecdotal~. That said, I wish you prosperity and only happy feelings (:
edit: I am sarcasm blind, apparently
Yeah…we know. It’s pretty clear wildginger was using it sarcastically and I was using the same words as them.
Oh ok sorry! It seemed maybe wildginger needed my pedantry more maybe. (っ_)っ💗
You would be wrong on that front as well, thanks
Everyone has personal experiences which shape their thinking, that doesn’t mean their thinking is correct or even any more true than someone else’s. I can trust that I feel what 2 feet is on a board, but it’s better if I measure it before I cut it.
If I want to measure a board, I don’t consult a magazine*. I use a tape measure.
Similarly, if I want to know how I’m doing financially, I’ll check my bank account balance before the network that continues to employ Jim Cramer.
*even if I were measuring in potrzebie, I would convert from the imperial units already on my tape measure instead of hunting down a copy of MAD Magazine issue 26. I respect Donald Knuth, but there are limits.
Oh wow. That CNBC article is conflating less inflation with deflation. And where they have to provide numbers they don’t tell you how that 1 percent decrease in chicken is after a huge run up. (And every other product in the grocery section there.)
I knew CNBC was an economic gaslighter but this is Fox News level of wordplay to make people think the opposite of what the actual information says. Even to the point of saying less inflation is deflation. Inflation is a measure of velocity. Going slower is not going in reverse.
And the Forbes one is a paywall.
The basic problem here is that while inflation is slowing and wages are rising, inflation being a net negative against wages for a single year isn’t enough. It’s not enough to make up all the ground lost to inflation over the decades, and the run away inflation we experienced recently. As a reminder, this is 2023. The Pandemic effectively ended in 2020. Three years ago. So what was net inflation in 2021 and 2022?
Well gee I actually have those numbers. 3.7 in 2021, and 7 in 2022. That’s net inflation, so inflation against median wage increase. The net inflation this year would need to be -10.7 to wipe out the difference created in those two years. We don’t have full numbers yet but it looks like about 5 percent median wage increase and 3 percent inflation.
So you have -2 net inflation this year. Yay. We’re still down by 8 points. But that’s okay it’s just a particularly big add to the 139 points we’re down since 1974.