A hacked database from AI companion site Muah.ai exposes peoples' particular kinks and fantasies they've asked their bot to engage in. It also shows many of them are trying to use the platform to generate child abuse material.
So it’s less about outlets and more about progression. The concern is while plenty have an outlet they can use, we can’t know how many also choose to escalate because of these outlets.
That said, I do agree with you. However, I will always be more for understanding the disorder when no act has occurred and finding treatment.
we can’t know how many also choose to escalate because of these outlets.
But we do know that in general, porn doesn’t elicit that kind of escalation into real life. If this particular category of porn did cause that, it’d literally be a total outlier.
Same with other media, too. Rape porn lovers aren’t statistically more likely to rape irl, violent video game lovers aren’t more likely to be violent irl, etc., compared to the general population.
So I think it’s pretty fair to hypothesize that, if anything, it would reduce the incidence of real-world offense. Just look at the massive negative correlation between the proliferation of porn (thanks to the Internet), and the overall incidence of rape.
Also, I’m familiar with one bit of evidence out of Japan that apparently showed that child molesters consume less porn than the average citizen, which I was definitely surprised to learn, but once you think about it in the context of the stuff I mentioned above, it actually makes perfect sense.
In all likelihood, fictional ‘simulations’ like LLMs will directly reduce the incidence of CSA, if anything. If that’s the case, I can’t oppose such things in good conscience–it’d be pretty narcissistic to put my personal disgust over even a single kid not getting bad touched.
I don’t have resources in front of me and shitty internet, so if I’m wrong here call it out and continue the conversation. Just a heads up. Gonna off the top of the dome on this one. Also, I do agree that methods which can reduce actual exposure or action should always be seriously considered, regardless of social outcry.
What you are largely referring to are taboos that also fall under other categories. Someone with a rape kink or fetish are in reality into a gaining of, or loss of, control. People who fall into these categories may also fall into some psychosexual disorder category, I’m not sure. What I do know is paraphilia is a recognized class of mental and sexual disorder or extreme deviancy. Does this mean we fully understand it? Nope! It’s just where we are right now in understanding, though my concern is always whether that understanding has been tainted by the knee jerk reactions surrounding the disorders themselves.
Anyway, I’m digressing a bit.
My larger point is that Paraphilia is understood currently as being outside of typical, or even atypical, sexual deviancy. We literally perceive and understand it as a legitimate mental disorder. Moreover, people who suffer from pedophilia and other recognized sexual disorders do struggle with their feelings and desire to act, even if the majority never do. Some even manage to lead healthy lifestyles around children or objects of their desire. Which brings up the concept of risk.
This is because as humans we can disconnect the real from fantasy. The issue with mental disorders though, and the reason they are disorders, is due to the severity of what is present. Which brings me up to another point: I don’t disagree on a fundamental level. I just worry that when it comes to a basic human need that people will find a way to excuse because they’ve been repeatedly introduced to stimulation that could exacerbate something they may already struggle to not take even the smallest of actions on.
This is a rocky subject that should be explored. Just done so carefully. That said, and I want to be clear, I do not blame any person for a desire, only action. Whatever sexual deviancy may exist, the most important things are safety and harm, and being able to provide appropriate care to those who are victims of their own mind.
An outlet they need is fuckin therapy, not sex robots, tf.
Idk maybe im fucking crazy for that but if I got an urge to murder specific types of people and my “outlet” is roleplaying it or using a videogame to do it. I should probably seek some fuckin help. Not keep doing it. It doesn’t matter that it’s not hurting anyone. It’s unhealthy, doesn’t actually help them, and could escalate into them doing even worse things.
Keep in mind, 1st person shooters or violent games deadass dont count. Intent matters. I can say “yea I love driving over people in GTA, its funny af” and thats fine, but if I confess that I enjoy targeting certain types of people in GTA; that I like attaching personalities or life stories to them, and then talk about how I like to find different ways to kill them slowly because x, y, and z. That I don’t do it as a joke but because I get a genuine kick out of it; That’s a cause of concern, cus I know some people that did shit like that and turned out to actually have mental issues and thoughts of harming real people.
Like I get this is an issue some people are born with, but at a point, shit like that becomes a problem. Especially because it’s porn. To me, Porn in general is just a slippery ass slope. No I don’t wanna start fuckin crucifying ever non-offending pedo I see, i ain’t that kinda person. But for the love of god, can we normalize them getting REAL help instead of these “alternatives”. I just feel like the more you involve yourself with a fantasy bot, the more you’re gonna forget that this isn’t how real people work and the more the line between fantasy and IRL can get blurred.
I mean idk man- im slow, maybe I got it all wrong I truly don’t fuckin know some times. But this is just how I feel, and its fucked up to me that shit like child abuse roleplay just goes unchecked like that or that the people that do this kinda stuff should go unchecked.
Removed by mod
So it’s less about outlets and more about progression. The concern is while plenty have an outlet they can use, we can’t know how many also choose to escalate because of these outlets.
That said, I do agree with you. However, I will always be more for understanding the disorder when no act has occurred and finding treatment.
But we do know that in general, porn doesn’t elicit that kind of escalation into real life. If this particular category of porn did cause that, it’d literally be a total outlier.
Same with other media, too. Rape porn lovers aren’t statistically more likely to rape irl, violent video game lovers aren’t more likely to be violent irl, etc., compared to the general population.
So I think it’s pretty fair to hypothesize that, if anything, it would reduce the incidence of real-world offense. Just look at the massive negative correlation between the proliferation of porn (thanks to the Internet), and the overall incidence of rape.
Also, I’m familiar with one bit of evidence out of Japan that apparently showed that child molesters consume less porn than the average citizen, which I was definitely surprised to learn, but once you think about it in the context of the stuff I mentioned above, it actually makes perfect sense.
In all likelihood, fictional ‘simulations’ like LLMs will directly reduce the incidence of CSA, if anything. If that’s the case, I can’t oppose such things in good conscience–it’d be pretty narcissistic to put my personal disgust over even a single kid not getting bad touched.
I don’t have resources in front of me and shitty internet, so if I’m wrong here call it out and continue the conversation. Just a heads up. Gonna off the top of the dome on this one. Also, I do agree that methods which can reduce actual exposure or action should always be seriously considered, regardless of social outcry.
What you are largely referring to are taboos that also fall under other categories. Someone with a rape kink or fetish are in reality into a gaining of, or loss of, control. People who fall into these categories may also fall into some psychosexual disorder category, I’m not sure. What I do know is paraphilia is a recognized class of mental and sexual disorder or extreme deviancy. Does this mean we fully understand it? Nope! It’s just where we are right now in understanding, though my concern is always whether that understanding has been tainted by the knee jerk reactions surrounding the disorders themselves.
Anyway, I’m digressing a bit.
My larger point is that Paraphilia is understood currently as being outside of typical, or even atypical, sexual deviancy. We literally perceive and understand it as a legitimate mental disorder. Moreover, people who suffer from pedophilia and other recognized sexual disorders do struggle with their feelings and desire to act, even if the majority never do. Some even manage to lead healthy lifestyles around children or objects of their desire. Which brings up the concept of risk.
This is because as humans we can disconnect the real from fantasy. The issue with mental disorders though, and the reason they are disorders, is due to the severity of what is present. Which brings me up to another point: I don’t disagree on a fundamental level. I just worry that when it comes to a basic human need that people will find a way to excuse because they’ve been repeatedly introduced to stimulation that could exacerbate something they may already struggle to not take even the smallest of actions on.
This is a rocky subject that should be explored. Just done so carefully. That said, and I want to be clear, I do not blame any person for a desire, only action. Whatever sexual deviancy may exist, the most important things are safety and harm, and being able to provide appropriate care to those who are victims of their own mind.
yea i don’t have a problem with people with issues having non-harmful outlets for their urges, even though i might consider those outlets distasteful.
An outlet they need is fuckin therapy, not sex robots, tf.
Idk maybe im fucking crazy for that but if I got an urge to murder specific types of people and my “outlet” is roleplaying it or using a videogame to do it. I should probably seek some fuckin help. Not keep doing it. It doesn’t matter that it’s not hurting anyone. It’s unhealthy, doesn’t actually help them, and could escalate into them doing even worse things.
Keep in mind, 1st person shooters or violent games deadass dont count. Intent matters. I can say “yea I love driving over people in GTA, its funny af” and thats fine, but if I confess that I enjoy targeting certain types of people in GTA; that I like attaching personalities or life stories to them, and then talk about how I like to find different ways to kill them slowly because x, y, and z. That I don’t do it as a joke but because I get a genuine kick out of it; That’s a cause of concern, cus I know some people that did shit like that and turned out to actually have mental issues and thoughts of harming real people.
Like I get this is an issue some people are born with, but at a point, shit like that becomes a problem. Especially because it’s porn. To me, Porn in general is just a slippery ass slope. No I don’t wanna start fuckin crucifying ever non-offending pedo I see, i ain’t that kinda person. But for the love of god, can we normalize them getting REAL help instead of these “alternatives”. I just feel like the more you involve yourself with a fantasy bot, the more you’re gonna forget that this isn’t how real people work and the more the line between fantasy and IRL can get blurred.
I mean idk man- im slow, maybe I got it all wrong I truly don’t fuckin know some times. But this is just how I feel, and its fucked up to me that shit like child abuse roleplay just goes unchecked like that or that the people that do this kinda stuff should go unchecked.
…what’s the Ai model trained on?
yikes
A sex chatbot? Ask the developers. I would just scrape AO3.
Do you think there’s a public database of statutory rape chatlogs?