First all the bs with Twitter and Elon, then Reddit having an exodus to Lemmy (not complaining lol), then Twitch. Are we like, in an alternate self healing dimension or something?
From Cory Doctorow:
Here is how platforms die: First, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.
https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/
Some of it is because we had a decade of cheap borrowing which has come to an end and many of these platforms were never profitable.
From everything I have observed, businesses are hunkering down for a recession in the next fiscal year. It explains the lay offs, the penny pinching, and puzzling decisions that look like business suicide.
For services that are free for users, advertising revenue and investment fund raisers are the only thing keeping them afloat. With banks like SVB getting seized by the FDIC, it’s starting to scare investors. Advertisers are seeing the writing on the wall that people will stop spending as much as they used to. We are also probably seeing jacked up pricing across the board because businesses are taking what they can before it’s gone.
So what’s left? Squeeze users for money. Additionally, shed users that actually cost them money and these tend to be power users. The question, which everyone seems to be assuming is a foregone conclusion, is if this shedding strategy will end up killing the service. In reality, we don’t know but the idealists would sure feel good if someone else ate their market share.
I’m just glad that federation is picking up steam in the social media space.
Also what hasn’t been touched on very much in this thread is the increase in interest rates from the Federal Reserve. The money hose has shut off and expansionary business policy won’t work for the foreseeable future even disregarding a recession. All these internet companies have developed and grown in an essentially 0% interest rate environment that rewarded growth beyond all else. With rates increasing, investment in risky companies that may or may not grow is becoming a less attractive option when you can just buy a 5% bond and so I bet a lot of these non-profitable, growth-focused web companies are seeing liquidity dry up and are having to reach profitability to avoid bankruptcy since servicing new debt in this current interest environment is basically impossible without solid cashflow and a clear corporate vision.
This is leading to all these companies suddenly raising prices, cutting staff, choking competition, and cheaping out to try and break even instead of grow. It’s a paradigm shift.
Crazy to hear people talking about this stuff out in the wild. Feels like I’m on superstonk, only place I tend to hear anyone connecting these dots.
Speaking of superstonk, is there a good superstonk or wsb personalfinance lemmy community? I am subbed to the beehaw finance community, but it’s really not a tube yet and seems to be a bit more economics leaning than pure personal finance or investing.
The subs I spend a lot of time on were FIRE, financialindependence, wsb, and personal finance and I miss them lol.
The Canadian GameStop folks have a community on lemmy.ca, but we are still very few.
I would like to join a federated wsb community too, if there’s anyone with any integrity willing to run it impartially. Anyone running such a place has a conflict of interest imo, the tendency is moral hazard. At least with single stock communities you know their motive.
I agree with most of what you said. I would say classifying SVB as a seizure is probably not accurate. The FDIC only came in when it was clear SVB was going to fold and in fact insured far more than the 250k per account guaranteed. Mainly to try and stem a run on midsize banks because
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Many companies had large holdings, undiversified in these banks
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The banks were borderline negligent with how they handled those deposits, sticking them all in “safe” government bonds that ruins liquidity.
Once the interest rate on the bonds was lower than the base borrowing rate, no one would buy the bonds instead of just buying new bonds with a much higher guaranteed return.
So, given that, I would say the FDIC instead bailed out the banks. Something they would never do for you or I, or even a business with similar valuation as any of the banks customers.
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The timeline split after harambe. This is known
It is known.
I wonder what our alternate timeline selves are doing. Good for them, right?
In Timeline-α the Visitors didn’t turn away in disgust and Contact was approved. The Uplift process is well underway, environmental conditions have been stabilized and restoration is progressing well. Space travel is still restricted to the Solar System but Humanity is on track to full Membership. Ambassador Harambe has resumed his duties on the Council.
The reality is that nothing is really dying and nothing is really changing. Twitter is still fully operational and other than a small hit nothing happened. Twitch already did a step back. For Reddit we’ll see but only a really small percentage of reddit is using third party apps.
It’s not the services that are dying, but the internet as we used to know.
Change is natural, but the services are all changing in a way not beneficial forthe users.
I think the “the internet is dying” perspectives are all incredibly overblown. They aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. I remember all of the “Facebook is dead, I don’t know anyone using Facebook!” posts, but I suspect many here are invested in some index fund that is being pulled upwards by Meta.
But how many people are still exchanging facebook contacts? Because I haven’t met anyone anymore …
Good point! I suspect it’s a lot more than we think. My parents are definitively still involved in doing this.
But on the other hand, does exchanging contacts mean anything to Facebook anymore? I don’t think that’s important to their income stream anymore. If the OP meant “these sites are still going strong but aren’t what they were when they began”, then of course I agree.
They saw Lemmy becoming successful, corporate mistook Lemmy with Lemmings, and decided to go out Lemmings style.
…jokes aside, Cory Doctorow has a great text about that, called “Tiktok’s enshittification”. It’s a four-steps process:
- The platform is good for its users.
- The platform abuses the users, to be good for its business customers.
- The platform abuses the business customers, to claw back all value for itself.
- The platform dies.
In my opinion it’s also the result of management being disconnected from the platform that it manages, and not knowing fully the implications of their own decisions.
We’ve reached the end of the VC-funded golden age where they are all now demanding a return on their investment, hence why the screws are now all getting tightened.
what happened with twitch?
Can’t open the post from jerboa
That’s honestly my biggest point of “needs improvement” we need an easy way to share links that other people can just tap on no matter the server without something breaking
With great power comes great irresponsibility
-big corps
Late Stage Capitalism.
There is a crisis of democracy in contemporary societies, every time that you invoke the direct power of the people, the status quo conservationists ban your participation and exclude you of most of the expression spaces.
The reddit exodus is comparatively very small. Tens of thousands of users, many of which will not stick around. Reddit has millions of users (hundreds of millions?). They barely notice.
As long as it is an exodus of enough interesting users. Lemmy needs roughly the number of users appearing now to make posts frequent enough. But still the lack of communities needs more.
Wait for after 1 Juli if they don’t reverse the decision they made. Right now the mods and users believe they can change this madness, but when the go through with it, many more will leave, especially mods and the og users that contribute most content.
There is no way that the Lemmy network can handle millions of users. The big instances are struggling with tens of thousands. I believe many will leave and reddit will become worse because of it, but it’s not going to die, it’s going to turn into facebook.
No without mods reddit is basically dead. Thats their own system and fault…
And i think the instances need more capacity to support the traffic, but its not impossible. i also hope that at least some of the people coming here start new instances.
big money ruins everything
money ruins everything
Ayyy that’s capitalism, baby!!
Higher interest rates means less investment, resulting in these companies racing to make a profit. The reality is that Reddit is bleeding money and has been for years, and Twitter is barely profitable.
Where do you see this information on their profits?
There isn’t much public information because all those companies are private. But, various journalists have looked into things and declared it isn’t profitable, for example:
That has left Reddit, known as a bastion of free speech, walking a delicate tightrope between its outspoken audience of 330mn monthly active users and new advertisers that can propel it into profitability.
https://www.ft.com/content/c4c01d86-85f5-49c8-9966-cbf935d834a2
Awesome. Thanks for the follow up. Crazy how hard it is to find. I’m sure their income is enough to pay them decent wages though. Not the moderators though, screw those people
Outside social media, we also have Netflix pulling their own BS, and then lesser know sites/services that are near and dear to me are RARBG shutting down and Mullvad VPN removing port forwarding on July 1st. It’s been a rough month for me in my little online sphere.
I don’t think Mullvad’s port forwarding decision can be compared to Reddit’s greed. They were getting in trouble with law enforcement for providing tunnels to illegal websites, so they had to either identify those customers or stop port forwarding if they didn’t want to get the entire company shut down.
Not technical enough for this one. What does port forwarding allow a user to do that they don’t achieve using regular VPN setup?
It enables incoming connections for devices in a NAT (i.e. for devices that all share the same IP address like in a VPN for example). Say your iPhone and your Laptop are both using your local wifi, then they both share the same public IP of your router. If I try to reach your laptop specifically, I have no way of telling your router to send my request to your laptop instead of your iPhone or the router itself. You can now tell your router to forward port 80 for example to your laptop specifically, so if I send a request to your public IP address on port 80, the router knows to forward it to your laptop.
Without port forwarding, only your PC can open connections to servers and only then can servers send data back to your PC (because the router keeps track of open connections and “temporarily” forwards the port of your open connection to you).
If you wish to run a website for example, you need to have ports forwarded. And torrenting works a lot better with it as well because people can contact you to send you the data you’re looking for. Otherwise you’d have to ask everybody by yourself, so to speak. And it’s more effective to “leave a note” for others to find and then contact you based on, because some of the peers might not want to be contacted or don’t have forwarded ports themselves.
Getting a bit more technical, “ports” are a transport layer (layer 4) concept. Other protocols may use different addressing schemes on top of the IP addresses, but most common ones like TCP and UDP for example use ports.
@Viktorian@beehaw.org has a good in-depth answer, but the TL;DR non-technical answer is that when you connect to a website, your browser requests the website data from the server the website is running on, which allows you to get information about this server like its location and service provider. This way, you can find out the identity of a website’s owner. With port forwarding, the website admin can pass the website data through Mullvad’s servers instead, so the it looks like the server running the website is Mullvad’s and the true identity of the host server is unknown. Law enforcement was pressuring Mullvad to reveal the information about the hosts of illegal websites, which Mullvad refused to give, so they decided to shut down this service instead.
The big sites got big by being there when a previous big site died. But nothing lasts forever, and eventually a social site becomes desperately uncool because there are people old enough to have grandkids on it. And they totter on, like a zombie, until they fuck out badly, and most people leave. But not everyone, I still get linked to blog entries on Livejournal now and then, sometimes I even end up on Blogger when I’m following a trail and people are still updating some of those.
Hey, I’m still on LiveJournal!
Okay, mostly DreamWidth with an echo to my LJ. And all of my friends are gone. But it’s still a damned good service. Frankly, I suggested it as an alternative to Reddit if Lemmy fell through.
The last straw for LJ for me was when they made any mention of queerness illegal so as to conform to the laws of their new home country. I logged out and never logged in again. I still get badly-translated email about anniversary gifts for my various 13-year-old accounts now and then.
I have a DW account but it lies fallow, mostly because I could never get the auto-crossposter plugin to work on my Wordpress site.
I think this is “normal” and the previous status was a glitch due to the low interest rates. Investors threw money at tech companies and didn’t care whether they made any money. Not any more. It’s now “make money or go bust”. I am not sayiny these new trends will make them money, but IMHO it’s what’s driving them
I dunno. A lot of the investors were (are) on waverides from previous success. There are absolutely loan-backed ones, but as one startup investor said to me “I look for 200-300% return in 5 years to not call something a failure.” With expectations like that, you hold to record profits even if 2/3 the companies you invest in fail.
