Give me any nazi atrocity and I can provide an example of the US doing it, and probably far worse and on a larger scale.
Hitler invaded Poland to plunder the country to stave off another impending economic collapse of Germany, thanks to his runaway excessive government spending. In that sense, he was distracting the Germans from being revealed on how bad of an administrator he was. Trump invaded Venezuela and wants to annex Greenland to distract people from the fact that he is a pedophile. And that’s a helluva weirder reason to go to war for distraction…
The Nazis were inspired by what went on in America. Genocide, concentration camps, segregation, forced sterilization, taking the children, etc
Considering the country was founded on the greatest genocide history has ever seen and chattel slavery, this should have been the case the whole time.
Sure. Just like how we all villainise Rome, the British empire, the Khanates, and other violent militaristic cultures of conquest… and, of course, no one would look back fondly on governments that enacted policies of hate and murdered their citizens and others… Oh, wait… /s
we absolutely do villainize the british empire wtf are you talking about. it’s only really second to the us fascist empire.
A certain subset of people do. There are still lots of Brits who not only don’t hate the idea of empire but think it should come back. There are even people in the former British colonies that romanticise that history. There are people now, and will continue to be, who look at the history of empires, conquerors, and tyrants, and cheer for the ‘great men of history.’ Maybe one day that might change, but it’s going to be a while, if ever.
Meanwhile people in US:
Not a lot of people think it’s fine, but nobody a tually has a clue what to do/ doesn’t want to start it
The solution is to organize. PSL already organized protests across dozens of major cities, and is constantly recruiting.
i’ve learned the hard way that some nuero-divergent behaviors (like mine) sow distrust within neuro-typical people who won’t let you help organize w them out of instinctual fear.
the last times i tried with the greens; lgbtq center in san jose; and the gmhc in new york; they had me spending the overwhelming majority of my time picking up garbage in parking lots and roads by myself.
the last 2 times were galling because i was a software engineer at the time w 10+ years of experience in IT and offered my services as a response to their advertised needs for IT & web developers/admins; yet i was only picking up garbage alone 95% of the time.
That’s a terrible way to be treated. I hope you have a better experience if you ever choose to try again.
fortunately my neurodivergence makes me forget A LOT so it’s likely that i will try again. lol
Haha I relate to that. I recently started applying to something, got hung up on a question, and realized I had started the process already and gotten hung up on the same spot
story of my life lol.
that’s why i put myself into that volunteering situation again despite the bitter taste of the first one and also why i been trying to finish a book series by s.m. sterling for the last 25 years; every time i try, i run into hand written notes from me in the past telling me that i need to read the previous book to remember what’s going on.
Cool, can we fast forward to the hangings pls?
Another thing we can accuse the US and their UK poodles of it’s only hanging a handful of nazis for show in their Nurenberg showtrials. (if that’s what you’re referring to)
They gave the vast majority of nazis all the help they needed escaping to S-America, Canada, etc…
Or simply forgave them and left them in high positions.Operation Paperclip brought over 1600 Germans including many Nazi scientists and leadership into the US to provide engineering for the US military and politically engineer the 50 year fascist project starting with Dulles and solidifying total control under W Bush. The CIA which was created by merging the OSS with literal Nazi’s had the leader of the agency George Bush Sr, become president.
Not right now, if we were to look at the US in it’s current state today they are far from being worse or near close to nazi germany, but if things continue following their course maybe they get fascist italy status
the us murdered far more people than nazi germany. instead of shoving people into death camps they carpet bombed civilian populations or sent their troops. it’s not mainly domestic terrorism but terrorism against koreans, cambodians, vietnamese, iraqis, afghanis, palestinians by proxy and many many more.
To be fair, the US had been doing it for a lot longer than Nazi Germany.
I don’t know whether that’s a point in its favor.
We need socialism
Replacing a violent country with the system that historically always led to military dictatorships does not sound like a recipe for success.
You don’t need socialism, you need northern European style capitalism
This guy doesn’t know what socialism is and is too scared of bogeymen to learn.
I don’t care what history has to say about us to high schoolers in 2060, I’m living in a country that will eventually hang me for posting this. The world needs to get it’s shit together and stop this train.
The world needs to get its shit together and stop this train.
No. Americans need to get their shit together and stop this train. Fix your own fucking problems.
If other countries stood up to his tariffs last year maybe our house and Congress would have stood up to him sooner before it was too late. The whole world bent a knee to him.
US: [taxes its own people]
ThePantser: “Why does the whole world allow this?”
Ah so it’s everyone else’s fault that Americans are gutless? That makes a lot of sense to me that you would think that. Countries enacted counter tariffs, which is standing up to tariffs.
America has it’s shit together, that’s why we’re able to build a concentration camp over night, why we have a pedophile in charge and why we can just casually kidnap a head of state without anyone batting an eye. This isn’t morons blundering around, this is winning a chess tournament by clubbing the rest of the competition to death. It won’t get better if no one tells us to stop.
Meanwhile, I get reminded every day that it’s my fault personally for letting a nation I had no choice in being part of turn into something so disgusting. As if I need only to get off my couch and blast my way through these blundering Nazis like an 80’s action film. I’m told to protest and participate as if my lack of presence was the sole thing that held back the marches and my congressman hadn’t blocked my phone number for calling to complain.
As mentioned below, my spouse is a first generation American with brown skin in a Republican state. If any attention is drawn to us, her, her parents, her autistic brother, the lady that cuts my hair, the grocery we visit down the road, half the parents in our neighborhood, I’m the only person in my community that isn’t currently represented in the ICE victim pool. If I rock the boat every single person I care about gets a plane trip to a foreign prison.
Every day it gets worse. Eventually, it won’t be plane rides, it will be ditches. Even if I don’t attract the attention of the government, it’s cultists yell racial slurs as they drive lifted trucks past my community. They gnaw at the bit for a chance to cut loose and remove this stain from their white city. They look at me with contempt in the stores for betraying the white race to love a brown woman.
I’ve seen the local protests, 10 people with signs on a busy intersection a mile from the courthouse. The police point and laugh as commuters throw drinks at them from their cars for thinking that human rights belong in a red state.
What the fuck do I do? What can I, standing here, actually do to change anything? There isn’t a single action that I can take that does not threaten to burn down my community and leave my child an orphan, and even still I’m here asking how I can solve this problem.
The only answer is that there is no action you can take that will assure you of that. If you do nothing, it is certain to happen should they succeed. If you do something it is possible that will happen and we succeed in stopping them. Or that we all die in the fires together.
Or we could stop them and you will all live. That’s is the best case, but not guaranteed. What do you want to work for? Your family is in danger now. Currently.
This is a beautiful sentiment that I’ve already passed. I want better, I want to be part of making better, but I do not know how to do that and apparently no one else does either because every time it comes up I get this this same answer. Where is our MLK, where is our Malcolm X, where is the map I need to be more than scared and alone?
You can’t solve the problem on your own and that’s the point. Instead of just driving past those protesters go join them. Invite others to go with you. Start a new organization of some kind in your community or volunteer with an existing one. Do whatever is in your power to do.
Victory over fascism is not something that can be bought from Amazon. It requires active participation. The action is less important than the participation. Just pick something and do that until you find something better.
That something better is what I’m begging for. I’ve stood and chanted, signed petitions, called representatives, stood in the rain to vote, taken every person I know to the polls, and the fascists still sit in office. I don’t need a prettier protest sign, I need someone to put a wrench in my hand and tell me the bolts that need tightened. I need someone with a plan that isn’t just “tell them we disaprove.”
I get that you also don’t have a better answer, that’s ok. This isn’t so much an argument about how as it is an extended scream into the void. I’m here, I’m willing, someone please fucking radicalize me already!
Not to lash out at you specifically but why are USians so stubbornly focused on the interacting with politics along the corporate party approved pathways? Even as others tell y’all it’s always back to voting, polling, petitions, campaign rallys.
Join an actual worker’s party or volunteer that time towards community outreach orgs rather than the popularity contests of millionaires funded by billionaires. Again, not to go off on you specifically but I’ve seen this aimless despair all over Lemmy, like everything you could possibly do is useless and, like, yeah, but only if you stay within that framework. That’s what the framework was built to do.
If you live in the US Empire, you can be a part of the movement to end it. Especially with the Empire’s recent aggression against Venezuela, now is a good time to get active! Join an org like the PSL! They’re already organizing anti-war protests, and even had one on Saturday.
If you live in the US Empire, you can be a part of the movement to end it
That’s objectively bad messaging. ‘End the US Empire’ is so trivial to paint as purely anti-American. Not only will fail to win over more than a tiny fraction of people, but anyone part of it will be easily discredited
How would ‘end the US Empire’ ever be a popular idea in America? Even assuming it is a moral platform, it can only ever be a fringe idea in America
Any socialist organizing will be painted as anti american. Who gives a shit? The fascists call the neolibs radical, marxist, far left, anti american, you name it, despite the fact that they’re two sides of the same shitty capitalist coin.
Your comment rhymes with telling a child not to stand up to their bully because the bully will call them names. Even a child would answer with, “but they do that already!”
It isn’t objectively bad messaging. The millitary budget is through the roof while social services are gutted. War in Venezuela and the genocide in Palestine are very unpopular. The faith in a system dominated by late-stage imperialism is declining, and correct identification of rising cost of living with stagnant wages makes sense when connected to the US Empire’s decay. Shifting from an imperialist economy to one where humanity is the master of capital, win-win cooperation is the basis of international diplomacy and trade, and a brighter future based on common humanity is deeply appealing to the average Statesian. Maybe not 40 years ago, but conditions are rapidly changing.
I dont mean to detract from your point at all here… In fact, PSL is my favorite org in recent memory, but I have yet to join out of fear.
I hope this comment doesn’t come across as FUD because I certainly don’t want to steer people away from organizing, but… do you ever fear that getting your name on paperwork in one of these orgs could jeopardize your safety? Shit is happening so fast in America right now that I am straight up afraid of organizing. Im thinking of a scenario where PSL headquarters gets raided, and everyone who shows up on an active members list gets shipped to El Salvador.
Kind of a disjointed reply, but I guess all I really wanted to say is that shit is getting really scary right now, and I’m not even part of a vulnerable group. I’m afraid.
Maybe the answer is that, yes, joining a leftist organization during fascist descent does incur massive risks, but that is the necessary burden that American leftists must take for the sake of the people we are oppressing? Maybe now is the time to be brave?
I get your point and share your worries, but I ended up concluding that I will regret more aiding the descent to fascism than being a casualty of it.
Think of all the people that survived Nazi Germany while being a collaborator and seeing all the horrors their cowardice helped occur.
I don’t think this people would have happy lives after that, I know I wouldn’t.
Furthermore, I believe that if I don’t act now when is somewhat safe, I will act latter down the line and would definitely get killed.
Is your choice.
Your fears are 100% valid. PSL has a strong public-facing presense as its own shield, it’s the honesty and integrity of PSL that keeps the public more on its side. However, there’s also the Action Network, an informal, secondary level of membership with minimal requirements that means you just volunteer when the opportunity arises, and aren’t a disciplined cadre. This is also a valid form of organizing, both the mass organization and the dedicated cadre are necessary!
there’s a STRONG trend of black and brown social media influencers warning people not to get involved if they have too much melanin for american standards and learning about the black panthers and the night of the long knives (coupled with my anecdotal experiences with white-passing family members) makes me think that they’re right.
some small part of me hopes that my contributions to the greens and psl are so long ago that that i’m no longer on their rosters.
If that day comes, do you really think that the absence of your name on a roster is going to stop them? Obedience in advance only teaches authority what it can get away with. The capabilities of authority generally are much less far-reaching than what they lead us to believe. Oppression breeds resistance and struggle, whereas the state would have us believe in the fantasy of unilateral control and suppression of dissent.
You owe it to yourself to study revolutionary history beyond just the most shocking events that scare you away from organizing. In the words of the late assata shakur; It is our duty to fight. It is our duty to win. We must love each other and support each other. We have nothing to lose but our chains.
I mean, the Black Panthers murdered by the state are heroes in my eyes, ya know? That seems like a strange argument. As bleak as it is to mention, I feel I must point out that having only the fear of future violence while others must face violence presently is a privilege. The good thing is that getting involved in organizing is also a privilege, the other side of the coin I guess you could say. Way I think about it, you’re gonna live with the fear of state violence already, so the fear from organizing is marginal, possibly negligible.
I’d rather be alive than be your hero. Black and brown people in the US already face violence without voluntarily painting targets on their backs. If people want to stick their necks out, good for them. But it’s kinda ballsy to try to shame black and brown people in the current USA for avoiding violence from some “place of privilege “
Alright. Privilege is still relative. Being defensive is not going to change that.
The fear of “sticking your neck out” is still very individualistic thinking. The goal is to learn and organize so WE can stick our necks out together. My lionizing of former martyrs is not an attempt to shame you. I still think that “don’t be like the people who actually induced change because they were martyred” is a terrible take.
This is the sole thing that keeps me down. My spouse is a first generation American with brown skin in a Republican state. If any attention is drawn to us, her, her parents, her autistic brother, the lady that cuts my hair, the grocery we visit down the road, half the parents in our neighborhood, I’m the only person in my community that isn’t currently represented in the ICE victim pool. If I rock the boat every single person I care about gets a plane trip to a foreign prison.
Every day it gets worse. Eventually, it won’t be plane rides, it will be ditches. Even if I don’t attract the attention of the government, it’s cultists yell racial slurs in as they drive lifted trucks past my community. They gnaw at the bit for a chance to cut loose and remove this stain from their white city.
I’ve seen the local protests, 10 people with signs on a busy intersection a mile from the courthouse. The police point and laugh as commuters throw drinks at them from their cars for thinking that human rights belong in a red state.
What the fuck do I do? What can I, standing here, actually do to change anything? There isn’t a single action that I can take that does not threaten to burn down my community and leave my child an orphan, and even still I’m here asking how I can solve this problem.
Organizing is the only way to protect them. If you do nothing, and it continues on this path, you will not be safe, regardless of your actions. If we can all join together and stop this NOW we can prevent that.
My wife is here on a green card. My employers are as well. Because they are fellow humans, I will die to defend them. I will fight tooth and nail. I will not be cowed by a fat orange blob who diddle kids. I will not be frightened by a mob of egomaniacal imbeciles. Their attempts to emulate fascists of the past is sloppy and will fail if put to any sort of test.
Help me to break them.
