So you consider France a communist country ? I dont get it
It’s sarcasm.
Comparing western countries with countries like Vietnam and treating it like reliable data.
If you’ve ever seen basically anything about rural Vietnam (or most other Asian countries), you’ll know that it’s basically impossible for the state to actually count deaths, let alone death causes.
And what makes data from Vietnam not reliable…?
Is France really so far above the European average? Or am I reading this wrong?
I am french. I already saw these figures and tried to understand why it was like that. The figures might be technically correct but it doesn’t make sense to compare them with other countries. 5000 people dying each year of hunger, it would be revolting.
We do not let people die of starvation in France, unless we think it is the best thing to do. We have this concept of “sédation profonde et continue”. Assisted suicide is prohibited in France. So people that suffer from uncurable decease can stop receiving food and hydratation until they die. They continue to receive painkiller or are even put in coma because letting them die that way is legal and considered the most human thing to do. A french christian newspaper wrote an article about it End of life: Are we really letting patients to die of hunger and thirst in France?. They are really opposed to assisted suicide and even them are OK with this process. So technically, we are letting people die of hunger.
About people suffering from hunger, we have food bank to help them, meal costs 1€ at university… It is far from perfect but we are not letting people die like the figures would let imagine.
About overseas regions, it is not that poor. The poorest overseas region, Mayotte, has been mostly destroyed by a cyclone two years ago. Both public services and NGOs thanks to a lot of donation reacted quickly to avoid famine. The situation is still bad but people are not starving.
Hope I answer the question
Thank you!
things don’t doing well in the french overseas regions?
Likely the same reason for the US
Half that spike is the US Navy.
French overseas regions are officially part of France, while US except Hawaii are not, so they likely are not counted in this statistics for US. Also the France has 4-4,5% of total population in overseas territories while US have around 1% so their impact in case of France would be also over 4 times greater.
So it’s most certainly just the good US of A.
Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands aren’t counted?
I looked at the source and no, they aren’t, just the proper states.
That’s wild!
Not much is proper in the states these days.
i doubt that, the us is in worst conditions than many third world countries
Vietnam undefeated
There is no information on how the data is collected. Perhaps China labels the deaths as heart failure or some other cause of death.
And like the other comments states, these numbers needs to be weighted for population.
Our World in Data conducts pretty rigorous research. I’ve looked up their studies before, and they’re pretty impressive. They know what they’re doing.
I don’t have access to the source data since you need to register, but I would assume that OurWorldInData knows to aggregate Europe per population, and not just average the values per country. France is not the only outlier, there’s also Norway and probably some others I haven’t seen
Ok, looked into the data and saw that there were practically zero until 2011 and a steady rise to 5/100000 annually for Norway. That is equal to 280 people a year.
Looked at national newspapers and found that following numbers: Between 2017 and 2021 860 people had malnutrition and starvation as main cause of death. 3790 had starvation as one of several causes if death.
These are all gearateic patients in hospital or assistes living. If you stop eating or drinking you will worsen existing conditions and also be more susceptible to new afflictions. Because of increased awareness to this in Norway, doctors writing cause of death has started registering more cases.
As I said as long as the numbers is just presented and not quality assured and explained it’s like discussing apples and pears. There is a problem with geariatric patients not starvation in Norway.
That fucking makes me curious as I am a Norwegian and hunger and malnutrition is not visible. But 10 in 100000 in Norway with 5.6 million totalt population is 560 people. But it all depends how deaths are reported. In Norway the norm is old age homes, run by the local municipality and there has been discussion how the food served is not the best. And how the residents doesn’t eat enough. Also you need more flavour to make food palatable for the elderly as you loose your sense of taste as you get older.
How anyone can have infant malnutrition on Norway is beyond me. You have mandatory visita to health station at 1, 3, 6 and 12 months (and 2 and 3 years) with consultation from physician and nurses. They weigh and measure and vaccinate. We got state sponsored prescription for hypoallergenic baby formula, so actual malnutrition should be caught. But I know that some immigrant communities doesn’t trust the system so they might be the numbers.
Isn’t malnutrition also englobe stuff as too much food and bad food ? Pretty sure a big portion of thoses are fat Americans that kill themself with food
Putting the blame on individuals is wrong. Obesity is a result of endless advertising and poor regulation due to capitalism.
As tobacco I bet
Yep exactly like tobaco, even more so with tobaco.
So you think the main responsable isnt the ppl putting food in their mouth ? Or lighting a cig ?
No it’s not. Evidently you have never had a popper addiction, I haven’t either but at least I’ve actually talked and listened to people to have. You can’t just decide to stop smoking or stop eating, it’s hard. If you could why would people willingly become overweight?
i had. It s hard but the main responsable was me.
Best anti-capitalist argument.
Yeah, but those are poor people, so 🤷♂️
Be aware, very old people die from this as a secondary cause from a primary of Alzheimer’s and other dementias. They just stop eating. It’s a misleading statistic to use to identify poverty based malnutrition.
Why is France also an outlier?
Dunno. I’m a US nurse. I don’t know how France does their death certificates. Wouldn’t surprise me that they’re more granular though.
Gave a detailed answer: https://lemmy.ml/post/46593201/25415914
Ah, thanks. I figured that, like the US, it was some kind of other policy that had a side effect of artificially skewing the numbers.
What’s the US’s excuse in this case?
Go read the comment I initially replied to.
WTF is going on in france
They got rid of their monarchs, so there’s noone left to tell them to eat cake
You’re mixing two population averages, so you need a weighted calculation.
Let’s approximate first: France has about 67 million people out of roughly 447 million in the European Union, so ≈15% French and 85% non-French.
We set up:
Overall EU rate = weighted average 1.7=0.15⋅8+0.85⋅x
Solve:
1.7=1.2+0.85x 0.5=0.85x x≈0.59
So, among non-French Europeans, the rate is roughly 0.6 per 100,000.
That’s substantially lower than both the French rate (8) and the EU average (1.7), which makes sense given how high the French figure is relative to the rest. Also this is pretty much what I read for Vietnam in this chart.
thanks France, for ruining our numbers!
Dunno what you’re trying to prove here, apart from “removing an outlier from the data makes the data closer to the average”, which is pretty obvious.
But you can clearly see that the graph shows Europe, not EU, so using your same calculation with the population of Europe, which is 745 million and excluding France, the result is 1.13.
Also I don’t see any indication that OurWorldInData is using an average of countries (which would be stupid). Considering their jobs are statistics, they probably know how to aggregate per population, aka a weighted average.
it says Europe though, not the European Union
if you click the question mark near the Europe statistic, it says it also includes countries like Russia and the UK which mess with the statistic a lot
good point, makes the comparison even worse %-)
That’s it, I’ve fucking had it with these cherry picking communists on Lemmy ml. You’re no better than hardcore capitalists, horse shoe theory and all that. Time to block more aggressively
How exactly is this cherry-picking? Communists wanting everyone to have food and be taken care of are entirely different from capitalists that want to suck the surplus value out of every worker. Horseshoe theory is wrong.
wtf is going on in france
“Let them eat cake” moment.
Jokes apart, the children of the rich are obese, the children of the poor are too thin. Both tendencies contribute to malnutrition.
https://globalnutritionreport.org/resources/nutrition-profiles/europe/western-europe/france/
Ppl eating shits. We have sole stuff even Americans will have to take a breath to finish thoses meals
I’ve read this over several times, and have come to the conclusion that you are either having a stroke, or a dog wrote this.
You okay?
What’s your dog up to?
I live in France…
I see that some people try to attribute this to older population and/or Alzheimer, but even by those metrics the countries above are pretty close and wouldn’t justify such a big gap:
As for the reliability of data, it’s from a peer reviewed study by an American university. If they had a way to make the China data look worse, I’m sure they wouldn’t hesitate.
You wouldn’t expect more (or less) primary causes if more secondary causes were reported in multifactorial deaths. I’d imagine the fact that in the US CMS adopted ICD-10 in 2015 and the rapid rise after would make that obvious enough. Unless you believe there’s some pre-COVID etiology for malnutrition that explains the jump I’m not seeing.
When they counted, they counted hundreds of thousands! We didn’t count therefore the number is zero, well done! The good and simple people of Starvation Land can sleep easy knowing that no one ever starves in Starvation Land
Usian nationalists might soon be telling each other this story, to feel less hungry…
It feels good to be starving, knowing that someone else is starving more
dark /s
