Due to a (now former) admin of the instance anarchist.nexus calling for a member of our team, as well as anyone else they call a zionist, to be murdered, the instance has been defederated.
We’re currently discussing how we will proceed with this situation and whether it will affect lemmy.dbzer0.com, which is mostly run by the same admin team, notably excluding the person who used to be on the anarchist.nexus admin team.
We will share further updates once we have them.
Update 2026-04-22 23:25 UTC: anarchist.nexus federation has been reactivated.
We are still discussing this matter, but there is currently no point in keeping anarchist.nexus defederated while lemmy.dbzer0.com is federated.
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As a Jewish person I think you should absolutely consider defederating from those instances. They platform and allow actual antisemitic people. They enable and encourage people calling for the death of Israelis. They are a bad place and no decent instance should associate with them.
Hey there, Kaplan.
So, this is quite clearly now just a witch hunt by you.
For anyone else who is curious, this is what happened.
A user by the name of Luminous was an admin on Anarchist.nexus. They banned MrKaplan from a community for posting zionist apologia. Luminous also had ‘Kill all Zionists’ as their display name. MrKaplan took this as a personal death threat. Instead of speaking with any other admin from Anarchist.nexus and reporting the behavior, MrKaplan instantly defederated from Anarchist.nexus.
In the next couple of days, Kaplan messaged other users/admins of Lemmy about the defederation and suggested defederation to others as well.
It was then posted about in the Piefed matrix channel. This led to PugJesus, someone who I abhor, actually saying something I agree with.
The conversation moves elsewhere. One bit of input that stands out is this. It will become important in a second.
In basically every situation, Kaplan is told that they’re wrong or overreacting but Kaplan cannot see past the ‘death threat’ to their own mistake.
So, I messaged Kaplan. Conversation goes on and one thing is made clear
Kaplan never spoke with anyone and ran all of this off of an assumption. There was inconsistencies in how the different people felt because they were different people and not one organism. What was individuality instead came off as obliviousness and Kaplan took it personaly. See what I mean by it became important? Kaplan is talking about a ‘lack of moderation’ over something that Kaplan literally never reported or talked to anyone about and instead just made assumptions over.
@Ruud@lemmy.world, this is what you’re backing. You went out of your way to make an instance that wasn’t going to be reddit and you went ahead and re-created Spez, an admin who personally takes out their own feelings on anyone that they don’t like and is trying to control the narrative of the entirety of the fediverse.
Friendly reminder to everyone. Check back a couple of months ago on this community and look at the post about JordanLund. A moderator who was openly lying to the admins in public but the admins took weeks to decide to do literally nothing. But a single user on another instance meant that MrKaplan was able to defederate it all.
This behavior from Kaplan is, quite literally, the reason that I left lemmy.world.
Don’t believe me? Here’s the last message I sent Kaplan during the Jordan garbage.
Funny. Jordan requires a ton of deliberation, reasons in the TOS, and you’re all ‘working on it’ but a single user says something you don’t like so instant defederation?
Edit: Quick note but every other post on this community has been featured. This one isn’t. So you’re making an announcement but you’re not really announcing it. Any response to this, Kaplan?
Edit 2: Kaplan is just blatantly lying. As demonstrated above, Kaplan has literally zero evidence of this claim other than things “feeling odd”.
Edit 3: Serinus joined the thread 15 minutes ago and now a number of my comments are being removed for ‘misinformation’ despite the comment above proving them to be categorically true.
From what I saw, the ‘call to murder’ was someone having kill all zionists in their username, and that only makes sense as a real call to violence if we’re supposed to take everyone’s username seriously and literally. That would be a very weird world to be in, as then we’d have to accept that we’re reading posts written by Star Trek characters come to life, inanimate objects, and various bodily fluids. Without evidence of something worth taking more seriously, at best this looks like the admin team doing something silly, and obviously certain groups of Lemmy users will interpret it less charitably and as the LW admin team being pro-genocide. Neither is a good look.
I don’t agree. I don’t think people should have usernames of the form “kill all [certain type of people]”.
If someone condemns Israel’s actions against Palestinians then okay. But I don’t think it’s right to call for the deaths of people you disagree with. Even the worst criminals should arguably not be killed with the death penalty, but instead imprisoned for life.
During an active military conflict, killing isn’t applying the death penalty just for disagreeing with someone, it’s typically the only remotely viable way to stop them committing whatever act they’re in the middle of. When that act is genocide, killing them is almost universally the only moral action as anything else, even if it still stopped them, would take longer and in doing so let more genocide happen.
If they’ve been stopped by other means, e.g. economic sanctions make genocide too expensive to continue, then many genocidal acts carry the death penalty under international law. That’s ethically dubious, but it’s far from the biggest problem with anti-genocide law given that it’s blatently not actually preventing genocide. If the username were just apply international law to zionists, then it’d still be promoting killing people.
It’s also misleading to reduce zionists to certain type of people, as it conjoures up ideas based on inherent identity that are obviously bad to persecute before more directly comparable types of people like murder enthusiasts actively committing murders and refusing to stop despite pressure to. No reasonable person would say armed police were unjustified in shooting someone who was stabbing someone else after they’d been already told to drop their weapon. Not all zionists are actively killing people, but they are all calling for it to be allowed to continue, otherwise they inherently wouldn’t be zionists.
Surely it isn’t necessarily true that every single zionist supports bombing Gaza. “Zionist” apparently means:
Surely some people within that definition support the existence of Palestine alongside Israel, and they oppose any harm done to Palestinian civilians. For example there is an Israeli charity, B’Tselem, which apparently supports Palestinian rights, although I don’t know much about them.
Supporting the state of Israel, at a time when it is actively committing a genocide, is supporting the genocide. Genocide should be a red line that forces people to stop supporting its perpetrators, and anyone who doesn’t withdraw support once a genocide starts must be, on some level, okay with it.
Existing within a state doesn’t automatically imply support for it. Most people have at least something they want their state to stop doing, and that can and does include existing. It’s hard to say that a charity issuing statements that Israel is an “apartheid regime”, “no longer a democracy” and “committing genocide” supports the state of Israel.
There are also plenty of people who, if asked, would say they support the state of Israel, but wouldn’t support genocide, and not see that as contradictory because they’re under the impression that Israel isn’t committing a genocide. What they’re supporting isn’t the state of Israel, it’s a hypothetical alternative state of Israel that doesn’t exist. If (pretending for a moment that the USS Enterprise wasn’t decommissioned in 2017 and was currently in the Strait of Hormuz) someone who mistakenly believed the United Federation of Planets was real expressed support after hearing in the news that the USS Enterprise had fired on other ships, it’d be most reasonable to just ignore them rather than assuming their opinion of their imaginary state was relevant to what their opinion of the real United States would be.
There are probably people who support the existence of Israel without supporting what Bibi and his government have done. Opposition politicians in Israel, for example.
Surely in any country there will be people (such as opposition politicians and activists) who oppose the current government’s actions, without wanting the state itself to be dissolved. Even in very authoritarian countries like North Korea there might be such people, although of course they would have to keep their views private, due to near-certain persecution otherwise.
My handle is serious. Deadly serious.
Same dude.
I’m sure you’ll have someone to satisfy your request someday.
Hello 😏
I mean, isn’t that what conservatives always do? Every horrible remark they make can always be taken back as “just a joke”. It’s like floating a weather balloon to gauge public reaction.
Surprise surprise Lemmy isn’t entirely different from Reddit in that:
- It kills a community over the name of one user (yes I’m aware it was an admin)
- Said admin had beef with this user, which they conveniently left out in their post description
- It’s got shameless hypocrisy too where calls to death from zionism is acceptable but not the other way around
For the record, I am not for calling anyone’s death as that’s not my thing, but have some consistency hypocrites. Smh.
The site structure can only do so much when what you hate is certain users. The idea of lemmy is that other instances can be free from the unjust actions of users on one instance such as this one-- which is a success.
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a lot of lemmings like to dog whistle by saying they would not shed a tear if all zionists or anyone not protesting against them were killed
because they are cowards
I think speech on the issue of killing zionists is more serious than Star Trek and cum farts, because there’s a war actively going on. And killing Zionist civilians during a war is starting to sound pretty war-crimey. We should only be killing Zionist soldiers.
If someone, in the course of WWII, said “kill all Nazis”, would you feel the same?
Keeping in mind Nazism, like Zionism, is a political identity one chooses…
And they are closely related ideologies, targeting their opposition and critics
I don’t mind either statement on it’s own. But it does become problematic once people go around baselessly accusing others of being Nazis/Zionists, which is something that is rampant on lemmy, especially dbzer0 and its offshoots.
Schindler, the list guy, was a Nazi. And he saved a thousand Jewish people from the Nazis. I don’t think Schindler ought have been killed. Plus there’s Operation Paperclip. They recruited Nazi scientists to work at NASA and help get a man on the moon. I’m not educated enough to understand the full ramifications of Paperclip, but it seems like a decent idea.
But all of that is kinda besides the point, because Netanyahu has a very different propaganda strategy to Hitler. A more sophisticated one. Netanyahu wants there to be extremists who would see him dead. He funded Hamas during the last Gazan election, because of their violent rhetoric. There is serious evidence that he and the government knew about October 7 and deliberately allowed it to happen by suspending the border patrols during the crucial hours. He’s got a plan.
Israel thrives on the violent rhetoric of its opponents, because they want to call us terrorists. That is why we must conduct ourselves with the appropriate restraint to beat these allegations. Luminous’ rhetoric sounds terrorist-y. They’re advocating for the killing of civilians. That’s terrorism. We need to be better than that, or we can’t win the propaganda war and gather allies.
I mean this pretty much avoids the question by invoking the idea that because there was some Nazis you approve of, something something… I fail to see the relevance. It sure sounds like apologetics.
You then proceed to moralize about the efficacy of the critique the stament is making, but you didn’t actually address the question.
Your argument is basically “Don’t be critical of Zionists or Israelis, because that plays into their five d chess”.
Now, put yourself in the position of the period immediately before WWII, and in your response, replace the word Israel with the word Nazi Germany.
Would you still agree with your statement? Are you comfortable with history remembering you did these kinds of apologetics on behalf of the worst criminals, the most abhorrent people of the time?
Okay, I’ll switch to talking about the big man himself.
It is a wonderful thing that Hitler killed himself. It was a PR blessing for the allies, because it prevented him from becoming a martyr. If Hitler had not killed himself, I do not think he should have been given the death penalty. I am against killing Hitler unless he was an active combatant. I think Hitler should have been given life in prison, because I am against the death penalty in all circumstances. And it would have made him a martyr.
Likewise, Netanyahu should not be killed. He should be given a fair trial, which I believe should reach a verdict of life in prison. I don’t want Netanyahu martyred, I don’t want to spend tons of money on his death row, I just want to put him in a room where he can’t hurt anyone until he dies of old age.
I’m not a Nazi apologist I just think hitler shouldn’t have been killed.
Actually insane.
If you can’t help but see a consistent position against the death penalty as “Nazi apologia”, that’s your problem.
The Nazis got some of their best inspiration from America’s treatment of black people. I don’t exactly think America is a shining beacon of responsibility, especially in the 1940s. I don’t think America should have a death penalty, because I don’t trust the American government to wield that power responsibly. If political enemies like Hitler can be executed, then political enemies like Edward Snowden are at risk too.
As an anarchist, I want to limit the power of the state because I don’t trust anyone with that much power. And I especially don’t trust the likes of Harry Truman and Richard Nixon.
That is why we must conduct ourselves with the appropriate restraint to beat these allegations.
On this point and this point alone I reply: No. Do not let the enemy define the terms of the battle. In the US, the Democrats need to not placate the fascists. Again, I am solely discussing the words I quoted, not the larger topic of zionists or the lemmy thing.
… I’m pretty sure both Democrats and Republicans are fascists. The Democrats want to exploit and enslave weaker nations for the benefit of the “lower” class and the Republicans want the spoils of war to go to the middle class. Both funnel resources to the upper class, so in that regard they aren’t different.
I don’t really have an opinion about this one way or the other, but it’s two sides of the same coin. Despite their different rhetoric, they are ultimately one and the same. I’ve just accepted the fact that I am probably fascist. Honesty is necessary for change.
… I’m pretty sure both Democrats and Republicans are fascists.
two sides of the same coin.
No. Very much no.
But first of all, where you are right is that the oligarchs are the true root of the problem in the US; or at least, the worst problem we have. And they do corrupt the entire system, yes.
However, the bits I’ve quoted above are very much not the case. I won’t do it here, but I have many many times pulled up voting records for what each side has actually voted for.
I can’t say there’s not times when they coordinate to make something almost pass, but I definitely can say that there are very VERY clear differences.
For one recent example close to my home here in Virginia: republicans have abused gerrymandering far longer and far worse than Democrats. Dems have tried to pass legislation to stop it. Btu recently states like Texas gerrymandered in an attempt to help Republicans gain more seats.
So in reply, Virginia did the same. MUH BOTH SIDES!!! But… one critical difference. In Virginia, we VOTED. And it nearly failed. So even when the Dems are fighting back in an attempt to force Republicans to eventually support an end to gerrymandering by gerrymandering themselves, they still put it up to a vote.
The two parties are not the same.
Alas, the Dems are, as a whole, pretty centre-right, but the Republicans are extreme right fascists.
So if you’re any sort of progressive, people like AOC and Bernie are rare lights in a very very dark place. But while there are shadows in the Democrat party, the Republicans are down the street, around the corner, at the back of a very very deep cave.
All that said, think what you wish to think. But really, they are not the same. But we do have very very very deep problems that do affect both parties. Just not equally.
I’m against the death penalty and I’m against targeting civilians during a war. Those aren’t the enemy’s terms of battle, those are My beliefs and values.
You’re replying out of the scope of my quote and reply. Which is your right, but means I have no further reply at this time.
I love it when you fascist lovers out yourself like this.
Ikr? Just for starters, using Operation Paperclip as an example of something good and positive to back up your point, when supposedly your reasoning for defederation is based on the concept of the Nazi bar? That is some seriously wild pro-fash hypocrisy.
If someone said “Murder all Martians. Rimu is a martian.” and then we spend hours debating whether it’s ok to kill martians or not then that would be a waste of time. Because I am not a martian. Obviously there are situations where murdering Martians can be justified - the problem is someone calling for me to be killed based on made-up bullshit. Let’s talk about that.
I accused the “FHF team members of being zionists while simultaneously calling for zionists to be murdered”. but if that were true, then why has MrKaplan not also defederated from lemmy.ml, despite many of their users being just as vocal as I am ?
Oof, this is the part that keeps coming back to haunt every instance across the Threadiverse. The question they raised is: why defederate hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml while giving a free pass to lemmy.ml?
There are reasons, though nuance and subtlety seem mostly absent from that YPTB post. When I was growing up, I was taught that my rights ended where someone else’s began, i.e. I can do anything I please, but so too can everyone else. Thus e.g. AN can do whatever it wants, yet as a result if other instances choose to defederate from it as a result, then that is their choice. Why one instance should be free to call for murder while another instance should NOT be free to block that kind of talk looks to me to be pure incel behavior: “my idea of a ‘compromise’ is when the other side does as I say”. aka trolling, or leftist MAGA.
The Threadiverse continues to fracture along the lines of “free speech” instances, which constantly call for the rights of other instances to be curtailed, and instances that enjoy moderating only themselves internally, for the sake of their users happiness since some of us actually are not terminally online and always, Always, ALWAYS looking for a fight.
I think your point about a war going on is spot on, but backwards.
While the project of zionism is engaged in genocide, kill all zionists is pretty clearly a call for resisting and punishing genocide.
Just as during a deeply homophobic regime, be gay do crime is clearly understood as a call to resist our illegitimate system.
I am confused. If the admin in question is no longer an admin, what’s the need for defederation?
Because this was their goal and the admins was just the excuse they’re using to get rid of another instance world can see
Lmao wait, there are conspiracy theorists on lemmy?
I’d call it less “conspiracy theory” and more “a history of .world’s administration”, personally.
Yeah but also usually just stay on lemmy.world and piefed
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Because they’re on world
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defederation was done while this person was still an admin
Will the two instances work to refederate now that the (former) admin is no longer in power?
No the Lemmy.world admins continue to vigorously project their insecurities.
The current admins continue to vigorously defend the admin who resigned.
It’s filled with antisemitic users. Who use anti-Zionism to cover up their blatant antisemitic slanting.
Zionism is an antisemitic belief.
You just showcased exactly what I am talking about 🙄
You conflate criticism of Israel and Zionism with antisemitism, that in itself is literally antisemitic.
No they’re not Rimu, you’re wildly misrepresenting reality.
They’re attacking the defederation and saying that Kaplan overreacted. Some think that Lum went too far, others do not, but it is not the consistent opinion that you make it out to be.
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Why not?
Just to be clear, so do the users.
This behavior from .world is why I left it in the first place.
Given your comments on here, I’m also now glad I didn’t decide to join piefed.social when I was excited to try out piefed. Its pretty disappointing.
Anyway, I’ll go ahead and point out that an admin getting banned for self-proclaimed support of Zionism is completely appropriate. Defederating an instance with an edgy bit in their profile is completely inappropriate.
This behavior was brought by the same people who tried to push “Everyone’s opinion is valid, no matter how horrible, you’ll just have to talk through it or you’ll be banned”, which they later backtracked on.
So this is entirely what I would expect of @MrKaplan@lemmy.world. Your behavior is a bit of surprise to me, but now I know, so at least there is that.
I see. Thank you for clarifying; the timing was unclear in the original post.
But they’re not of dbzer0. So where is your justification for claiming that you are talking about defederating with them? Oh right. Literally none.
the tea is all over yepowertrippinbastards, and i gotta say i agree with the prevailing sentiment. mrkaplan is making a bad move, but its indicative of a pattern of politically based moderation that pervades .world.
but its indicative of a pattern of politically based moderation
No, you know what, keep the typo; it’s correct.
it’s not a typo, but I can see the syntax is unclear
despite pretending neutrality, .world bases it’s moderation on political motivations
edit:
love when they try to poison the well and encourage dog piling. shows they are truly grounded in good faith. /s
Everyone bases their decisions on political motivations, it’s part of being a political species.
sure, but why didn’t the admins just advertise their real politics instead of pretending they aren’t prozionist
Not everyone. I dont make choices based on politics, because I do not engage with or participate in politics as best I can. Especially here on Lemmy.
As a mod for .world/c/cars, I only make choices based on the rules of the community and instance. I might not agree with a post or comment, but if it isn’t breaking the rules then I don’t do anything about it, and if its reported content then I will just close the report. Admittedly, its pretty low traffic so I haven’t needed to do much, and the other mod is great and handles things usually before I need to get involved.
I believe it is the responsibility of a mod, admin, or other figure in a position of power to not abuse that power. Fair and equal application of rules, extending the benefit of the doubt but still firm about the rules, etc. are ways to avoid this IMO, so that is what I try to do.
Someone having a different opinion or belief should never be a reason for mod action, even if I think that opinion or belief is wrong. Unless it is against the rules (or clearly dangerous such as suggesting drinking bleach for any reason), it should be allowed to be said. Users shouldnt be afraid to have posts removed at random or because I dont agree with them. Sometimes this means a new rule needs to be made, and thats okay.
You make decisions for your community based on the rules. There’s another word for rules: policies. You make decisions based on the policies. That’s politics. What I think is going on here is, you don’t make decisions based on external politics, just internal politics.
despite pretending neutrality, .world bases it’s moderation on political motivations
Do you wanna just get the “muh freeze peach” part over while you’re at it and save us some time? You just say they’ve feigned neutrality but then never back it up because a) you know it’s provably horseshit, and b) it doesn’t matter because you’re trying to separate things into political and apolitical categories that fundamentally do not exist and – as we all know from conservatives pulling this schtick for decades – only hurt the victim by silencing what you determine to be “political” speech and actions.
Yes, it’s political that an instance admin called for another instance’s admin to be killed; yes, it’s political to defederate from them in the sense that everything about social media and group dynamics generally is inherently political; no, I don’t think it being political is a bad thing like you’re pretending to. I’m sure you haven’t raised a squeak whenever an instance would choose to defederate from a hateful, far-right cesspit; the reality is that the person feigning care about neutrality here is you.
Edit: Oh, they moderate a Jill Stein community. Their unhinged behavior below makes way more sense now.
you know, you don’t have to defend the admins. they’re not going to suck you off.
wow, this screed doesn’t at all debunk the accusation of overt pro-zionist moderation
edit:
jill stein is anti Zionist, too
Dropped that whole “political” thing like a rock, didn’t you? You never said anything about “pro-Zionist moderation”; your only two comments that I replied to were whinging about “politically based” and “political motivations”, and now you’re pivoting with no acknowledgement, because you’re fundamentally arguing in bad faith.
If your problem is their specific politics, you can be upfront about that, but you deliberately chose not to, and you’ve proven discussion with you is not worth anyone’s time because of it.
zionism is obviously a political position, and the mods have feigned impartiality about it while moderating anti Zionist sentiment away. you are splitting hairs and it’s unbecoming. your shitty attitude is also damaging your case here.
your shitty attitude is also damaging your case here.
Tone policing too – as though I need my argument to be compelling to somebody who intentionally layers their argument under conservative-style misdirection, and pretending as though failing to mince words to your liking hurts the credibility of my argument.
Edit: Policing my tone out one side of your mouth while remarking “[the admins aren’t] going to suck you off” out the other is so pathetically expected.
you’ve proven discussion with you is not worth anyone’s time
This is honestly pathetic. If the admins want to have an argument at least leave everyone else out of it. Defederation should be an absolute last resort not your first port of call when someone disagrees with you
Okay, but was the person accused a Zionist? If so, why not eject/defederate/ultimatum them instead?
I’d prefer a federation of rabid anti-Zionists than one of Zionists. It’s the Nazi bar analogy, because EVERYONE should be against Genocide.
Yes notoriously so.
So long as they’re also anti-Russian imperialism in Ukraine (genocide) and anti-Chinese imperialism in Taiwan (also would be genocide).
I notice many of these tankies suddenly have much to say defending these countries with atrocious records and blood on their hands as well.
Edit: Case in point. If there’s one Xi/Putin supporter at a table…
What about anti-Taiwan imperialism in China? Because Taiwan claims all of China and the 7 dotted line.
Ukraine supports Zionism because that is an easy to to get support from America.
You cannot be against Zionism and support Ukraine at the same time.
What about anti-Taiwan imperialism in China? Because Taiwan claims all of China and the 7 dotted line.
Taiwan has to maintain these heritage claims because repudiating them would effectively be de facto repudiating the ‘one-china’ agreement and equivalent to declaring independence, which China would take as a casus belli. It’s a farce. No-one, Taiwan included, genuinely believes that they can get any of that land, nor that it would be desirable to pursue it.
You cannot be against Zionism and support Ukraine at the same time.
This is silly. So you assume every single person who supports Ukraine defending themselves against Russia is automatically pro-Israel?
Taiwan doesn’t have the military power to take over mainland China, but they certainly want to.
The difference between a peaceful person and a harmless person is a peaceful person has the strength to cause harm but chooses not to, but a harmless person doesn’t have the strength to cause harm, even if they wanted to.
Taiwan wants to cause harm, but isn’t capable of it. That doesn’t mean they’re any less imperialist than China. Don’t forget they fought the communist party with everything they had and would do it again if they could.
You cannot support a Zionist and not be a Zionist yourself.
Taiwan doesn’t have the military power to take over mainland China, but they certainly want to.
Based on what do you claim this?
You cannot support a Zionist and not be a Zionist yourself.
Supporting Ukraine defending themselves against Russia has nothing to do with Israel.
Taiwan doesn’t have the military power to take over mainland China, but they certainly want to.
bwahaha… no, they don’t. it would ruin the taiwanese economy to attempt and has never been a consideration. hilarious
What does any of that have to do with Ukraine
You cannot be against Zionism and support Ukraine at the same time.
fucking watch me.
🇵🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼
what’s the third one?ahh taiwan. yeah!
And the truth comes out
lol and there it is.
If there’s one Xi/Putin supporter at a table…
If there’s one Zionist at a table…
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And you have proof? Because everyone has proof of .world’s actions of censorship and removal of Palestine issues.
I don’t have any. If you and everyone else have so much, would you share some with me?
we are not zionists. if you call for zionists to be murdered and then call us zionists that is a call to murder us, despite a lot of people claiming that it’s “just a harmless political slogan”. this is normalization of mass murder. we do not tolerate genocide or other murders either, which is also an accusation that a lot of people are throwing around here. accusations of zionism, mostly from dbzer0/AN users, are constantly thrown around against people that they don’t deem to be radical enough.
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I’m sorry Kap, but you are 100% a zionist and you don’t get to argue that. You simply don’t get to claim you aren’t one when your actions speak otherwise.
When it comes to the whole ‘murder all zionists thing’, this just kind of proves the point that you are a zionist in the first place. No one who isn’t a zionist would fly off the handle into such a petty rage like you have. There’s also the fact that you’re silencing voices, refusing to allow people to speak, and using collective punishment on the entirety of dbzero and anarchist nexus due to the actions of a single fucking individual.
Yeah. You’re a zionist Kap.
When it comes to the whole ‘murder all zionists thing’, this just kind of proves the point that you are a zionist in the first place.
No it doesn’t. Luminous outright called Mr. Kaplan a Zionist, and drew a Swastika onto the logo of the FHF. I responded elsewhere in more detail but wanted to isolate this point here: you seem to assume that Mr Kaplan felt called out due to a guilty conscience or whatever, but that is not what the facts of the matter show in this situation. Luminous very clearly called for the actual irl murder of everyone in the FHF.
And then, in their own words, preemptively banned MrKaplan.
There’s also the fact that you’re silencing voices, refusing to allow people to speak
Setting aside for the moment how Luminous abused their admin powers to do precisely that, and also btw did it first (Mr Kaplan’s actions were taken in response to those of Luminous), yes that is exactly correct: the very many many many calls for outright, actual, irl murder coming from AN are now silenced, not visible to the users of LW.
Anyone who wants to can still read them ofc, but LW provides that moderation service to anyone who would like to remain on LW and receive it.
Not all of us are spoiling for a fight 100% of the time, and sometimes people just want to browse some memes once in awhile, ya’know? Without having to wade through calls for murder I mean. The rights of everyone on AN are nowhere being curtailed, i.e. they still retain full rights to speak as freely as they wish, but LW is done platforming such from them, echoing and amplifying and storing those messages on their machines the same as all of the other content on the Threadiverse. Like hexbear, AN got too problematic to have to try to figure out which communities were safer for consumption vs. which were too problematic, so since the numerous calls for violence were not being toned down and even being led by their admin team, the entire instance was defederated from. That’s not a witch hunt, that’s a response to very clear extremist rhetoric. LW users should not be forced into having to read MAGA-like language, even the leftist version that is supposedly on the “other side” (yet seems to behave so identically to it that I can barely tell a difference anymore).
Luminous acted as a user/moderator. Kaplan acted as an admin.
You are not taking any of this into account. I’m not wasting my time with this because, I too, elborated on this elsewhere.
You are a Zionist.
Lmao they permabanned me for this, and then days later unbanned me. I didn’t ask to be unbanned. This is what regret looks like.
Does Israel have a right to exist?
In an ideal world where this could happen in a peaceful way? I wouldn’t see an issue with that.
In our current world where it seems that the only way for it to exist is one involving mass murder? Absolutely not.
Ok so you don’t think israel has a right to exist and it’s existance requires mass murder, that’s good to hear!
Do you think that this state should be dismantled then (through force since that’s what’s apparently necessary) to be replaced with a free palestine “from the river to the sea”?
You have a user in this exact topic defending israeli genocidal actions that minimize the nekba claiming most palestinians left with no pressure. I reported multiple of his comments. You did not remove a single one of his comments. In fsct, besides one or two lemmy.world community, zionist posts never get removed. You may not be a zionist but you surely tolerate it
Zionism is bad tho
The Jewish people having a homeland where we are safe is not bad. Saying it is is antisemitic as fuck. Jewish people are oppressed and in danger all over the world. We deserve a home to feel safe in.
That’s fine, but zionism is not only that. The problem is kicking out everybody else and/or stripping them off the rights you afford yourselves. If zionism only meant “Jews move to places they feel safe” nobody would have a problem
It is antisemitic people who have a problem with Jews being safe.
I don’t have a problem with that, I just told you. Go troll someone else
The home you want was stolen from someone else. Palestinians deserve their land and to not be genocided by 20th century colonisers.
Jewish people live in safety all over the world, far more safety than in a country that routinely puts it citizens in harms way via committing wars of conquest and slaughter.
It was our ancestral home which was stolen from us after centuries of antisemitic violence.
And before that someone else lived there. Something that happened thousands of years ago does not matter in this day and age.
Zionism is bad, Ethnonationalism is bad, Murder is bad, War crimes are bad, Genocide is bad, Racism is bad
Many of the people involved in this conversation are toxic assholes who need to touch grass.
Only reasonable take in this entire thread.
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Have you considered raising this with the admin team before defederating?? Or with your userbase?? I don’t wanna hear shit about hexbear is aUtHoRiTaRiAaAaAn when they have a vote before defederation instead of just throwing a tantrum and reflexively defederating a whole-ass instance because of personal drama between two admins.
Have you considered not being Zionists
Guess I need to move instances
I mean, the great thing about Lemmy, Piefed, and MBin being federated is there really isn’t a reason not to try different servers and services till you find the one you like best. Not like post history and karma mean anything here. Besides it’s nice having a backup account in case your main instance goes down for maintenance or gets DDOS’d. No reason not to have other accounts. Unless you’re doing it for ban evasion, or harassment, vote manipulation, or similar reasons ofc.
Except at some point if many instances defederate many other instances you cannot get the whole picture from any of those. Destroying the whole point of federation.
Federation is a strength if played right. If played wrong, like defederating a whole instance for a personal issue between admins, federation becomes a weakness and a deterrent for people who just want to have some fun to want to join or stay in the fediverse.
Some instances like https://lemmy.zip/ have a very short defederation list: https://lemmy.zip/instances
7 instances, including 2 owned by Meta.
They still suggest some user-level blocking for new joiners, but that way people who want to still see everything can.
Same logic for https://piefed.zip/
Ah the irony of not being able to see your lemmy.zip link bc I’m in the UK…
Access to Lemmy.zip Restricted for UK Users
Due to the United Kingdom’s Online Safety Act, users from the UK can no longer access Lemmy.zip.Lemmy.zip is hosted in Finland, and to ensure compliance with international regulations while avoiding any legal risks associated with the Act, we have made the difficult decision to block UK access. As a volunteer-run platform, we cannot guarantee full compliance with the Act’s vague and expansive requirements. Additionally, we are unwilling to implement invasive age verification methods that would compromise user privacy by requiring the collection of personal data.
If you disagree with these restrictions, we encourage you to contact your Member of Parliament (MP) to express your concerns about government overreach in internet regulation.
That UK law is really something.
Do you think there is any chance it will get reviewed at some point?
Not really.
At the same time, lemmy.zip is being overcautious because I doubt Ofcom know what lemmy is.
Better safe than sorry. We’ve seen enough instances going down lately, being cautious makes sense.
No idea - it was introduced by the less overtly fascistic of the two parties alternating in government, so… D:
Though they are both losing ground to upcoming parties which are more radical than the main ones, so in case the Greens (a party in the left-liberal quadrant of the compass) or the Lib Dems (right-liberals) gets to be part of a coalition government in the next elections, they might be able to push through a repeal.
No idea - it was introduced by the less overtly fascistic of the two parties alternating in government, so… D:
Labour has always been authoritarian and were cheering along OSA all the way when the Conservatives introduced it - Nadine Dorries heavily involved before her bizarre defection to Reform. Something they don’t get called out for enough.
Is it actually moving instances or just making a new account on another instance? I’d want to take everything with me including history, is that possible?
Unfortunately, no. Fediverse allows you to cross-comment on other instances from your “home” instance you’re logged into, but you have to make a whole new account on another instance to move.
Just so I get this right, you defederated an entire instance because a singular user has lost it and called for violence?
it wasn’t a regular user. it was a member of their admin team.
A member of the admin team who is now not om the admin team anymore
Which is still just a single person.
If the instance in question fails to remove the admin, then the only valid conclusion is that the admin team of that instance supports that type of behavior.
The only possible way to proceed is to defederate from the instance, at least until there are significant changes in the administration, starting with an admission of wrongdoing and an apology. Until that happens, the entire community should treat that instance as malicious.
If the instance in question fails to remove the admin
The post itself admits that the admin in question is no longer in their admin group. I don’t know more beyond that, but it sounds like the instance may already be working towards making things right
I’ve got a bit more knowledge of the narrative here so I’ll explain. Luminous, the admin who said kill all Zionists, has voluntarily resigned as an admin in order to try and get anarchist.nexus refederated. But the prevailing sentiment on anarchist.nexus and its sibling instance is that Luminous did nothing wrong.
Personally, as an anarchist, I think we should only be killing Zionist soldiers, not the civilians. So I’m very concerned by this apparent support for what would likely amount to war crimes. Zionism is bad, but I don’t support the death penalty for being a zionist.
Now if you look at the history of Gaza, it gets even worse. Netanyahu funded Hamas in the most recent Gazan election to help them win, because they were more radical and violent than the other parties. Netanyahu wanted Gaza to be governed by people who think killing all Zionists is okay. So I think that Luminous is playing into Israel’s hands, and giving them the propaganda they want. Is defederation an appropriate way to keep this propaganda from spreading? Unclear, I’m still on the fence. But I’m definitely not on Luminous’ side in all this.
‘netanyahu created hamas’ is a hasbara talking point that removes palestinian agency and de-legitimizes resistance by framing it as an israeli puppet show.
hamas emerged from the material conditions of occupation and blockade
allowing qatari money into gaza and exploiting hamas/pa divisions is standard colonial divide-and-conquer, not ‘creating’ resistance.
the ‘playing into israel’s hands’ argument is just more tone policing. colonial powers will paint resistance as terrorism regardless of rhetoric.
respectability politics doesn’t stop genocide. if palestinian armed resistance against iof soldiers is legitimate, then saying ‘kill zionists’ online isn’t ‘giving israel propaganda’, it’s just being honest about what legitimate resistance entails.
applying ‘war crimes’ frameworks to resistance while actual genocide is happening is liberal legalism that judges the oppressed by their oppressor’s rules. international law was written by imperial powers to protect imperial interests.
this whole framework of calling on moral realism about death penalty being ‘objectively wrong,’ insistence on fair trials, tone policing resistance rhetoric, defending zionist family members as ‘just misled’ is just liberal moralism with anarchist aesthetics. there’s nothing anarchist about supporting state institutions (courts, prisons) or prioritizing israeli propaganda concerns over palestinian liberation.
‘anarcho anti-realist’ my ass
Now, I’m an innocent* bystander normie who’s just wandered in here…
But the way you write is pretty strident(?). I get that this language is developed over time and many interactions that I’ve not seen, and yadda yadda
But you are the FIRST person I’ve seen say “netanyahoo created Hamas”
Who tf sincerely says/believes/promotes that? The comment you replied to sure didn’t. Nowhere in this thread afaik has anyone made a statement even resembling that.
No shit Sherlock opposing interests will try to manipulate their opponents by doing shit like promoting/helping/enabling the “worst elements” in their opposition. That’s not new and occurs everywhere and apparently there is clear and compelling evidence that Netanyahu worked pretty hard to make sure that Palestinians were represented poorly.
So, I guess… Thanks for letting us know that someone out there has that ridiculous rhetoric? But it’s not relevant to the commenter you were replying to, or anything else afaik.
- my innocence is debatable and relative
To some extent, none of that matters. There is no justification for calling for the extra-judicial killing of anyone, no matter how much you dislike their politics. That’s just murder.
You might say that some people should face trial for their behavior, and you might support the death penalty as a punitive measure, and those statements might be valid and permissible.
Saying that anyone should be killed based on their personal beliefs or political views is fucking heinous, no matter the context.
extra-judicial
Why should the state have the monopoly on killing? They clearly do a horrible job with it and use it to kill innocent school girls to defend genocide.
What’s legal is not what’s ethical. Legal systems have no basis for justice.
Well, killing soldiers in a war is extrajudicial, and I think there are valid reasons to kill soldiers in a war. I want us to go to war with Israel and blow up their military bases, which would certainly cause the deaths of some soldiers. But soldiers sign up to put their lives on the line for their country, so there’s a measure of fairness. Israel’s draft complicates that argument a little bit, but not by much.
But I remain opposed to the death penalty. In a war, death is the only way to remove someone from being able to harm others. When we have other options, we should take them. If we manage to get Netanyahu into government custody, we should be keeping him alive so he can face trial for his war crimes. And then he should be put in prison for life.
If they are, then they can look forward to re-federating in the future.
But, as I said above, removing the problem person is only part of what the community should require.
And based on what @Grail@multiverse.soulism.net said, that may not be forthcoming.
No they cannot, because Kaplan is on an agenda here. It has nothing to do with the user.
You let one Nazi drink at your bar and you’re a Nazi bar.
You only gotta fuck one goat.
So why do you allow Zionist admins at lemmy.world? It’s a Zionist instance, by that logic.
The irony of posting this while defending a literal fascist.
And yet the world functions by having groups work together (not with nazis) like every single government on the planet. This person isn’t a nazi. And the bar isn’t a nazi bar. And the about federation is it isn’t like a bar. You can cut them off anytime so you can wait until it becomes (or doesnt) to defederate.
They do support the death penalty, which is gross. I think we should only kill zionist soldiers. Not the civilians. And we should do it in a legitimately conducted war. We should go to war with Israel, blow up their military bases, and force them to make peace with Palestine. None of that requires killing zionist civilians. In fact, killing civilians is often a war crime. So I don’t support War Crimes Luminous.
While I agree with you to an extent, I’d like to point out there are many zionist civilians who are active participants in the genocide. How would they be handled? Also I find the idea of a “legitimately conducted war” to be a fools notion. Violence can be a necessary and appropriate response, but it is ultimately corrosive to all involved. War, as they say, is hell. It is devoid of moral righteousness. If you are in a war, fight it, to survive, but know you aren’t getting out intact nor clean.
Not attacking you, just my 2 cents.
When I say legitimately conducted, I’m talking about not committing war crimes. No targeting civilians, no poison gases, no atom bombs, no cruel and unusual weaponry, no torture of POWs. You know, the bare basics. War is hell, but we don’t need to go making super-hell. Regular hell will do.
As for the civilians who are participating in genocide, I say put them on trial. Send them to prison. Civilians are defined by their not posing an active combat risk. If we defeat the IDF and then Bibi picks up a gun, then he’s become a soldier. But if he surrenders, then we don’t execute him, we put him on trial and send him to prison for life. And it should be a decent prison with a nice quality of life, because there’s no need to punish people when they’ve already been removed from society and can’t do anything to hurt people anymore. I’m a supporter of luxury prisons, they have a better rehabilitation rate and I don’t believe in punishment,
But those “civilians” are actively killing Palestinians as well. There isn’t really a delineating line here when the politics are aligned across the entire country civilians and soldiers, and the country is utilizing civilians as a mechanism to continue the genocide, through settlers who are committing crimes just as bad as the soldiers are. Why do the soldiers not get a trial but the “civilians” do?
To be abundantly clear, I do not agree with “kill all Zionists” in any way shape or form. But I am disagreeing with the entire premise of this conversation. LW is banning someone based not on what they do or have done, but based on a political call that was in their username. You said it yourself, we should kill Zionists soldiers (not saying I agree with this but it is in the conversation). So what makes your point of view so legitimate but their point of view a reason for complete defederation? Imagine the UN even existing if something like this got you kicked out of the conversation.
My grandma’s a zionist. She’s a little old lady who lives in Australia. She’s not Jewish, she’s a Christian. But she’s fallen for the propaganda that says the holy land is owed to Jewish people. She’s gone for a holiday in Israel a few times because the place is important to her faith. But she’s disappointed in Israel for its war crimes in recent years, the same as most people. She wants peace, she just hasn’t realised that Israel is fundamentally anti-peace. She might get there one day.
I don’t think grandma deserves to die. The only thing she’s done wrong is give Israel’s economy a few thousand tourism dollars. That’s bad, but it’s not death penalty bad. I want grandma to live.
I don’t know if defederation is an appropriate response, I haven’t made up My mind. But I do know that Luminous is harming the Palestinian cause by giving Netanyahu the violent rhetoric he wants people to hear from his enemies. Netanyahu wants his enemies to look like terrorists. Luminous looks like a terrorist. I want us to look like we’re interested in stopping the killing.
Who’s in charge of that instance. Are you suggesting that admins are never responsible for what they say because every admin is a single individual? The admins of this instance have complete discretion over who they want to federate with.
Are you suggesting that admins are never responsible for what they say because every admin is a single individual?
Not at all. But by defederating the instance, you’re not just punishing the admin, but every other user on that instance. It’s a complete overkill reaction to something that is honestly a harmless threat. If I’d go nuts like that every time someone tells me he wants me to get killed I’d have a very high blood pressure.
Defederation is a last resort reaction if an instance is seriously incompatible with the rest of society, like .ml
I don’t know man, the admins of this instance don’t owe anything to the users over there, and the defederation doesn’t meaningfully impact anyone over there as far as I understand.
If I was regularly chatting with people who call for killing me, I would have a very high blood pressure.If I was regularly chatting with people who call for killing me, I would have a very high blood pressure.
Yes, that’s why most sane instances blocked .ml
But we’re talking about a single person who lost it, not the entire instance rebelling against lemmy.world or something. You’re not just punishing the person who did it, but everyone else on that instance.
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Lol, The FAF takes weeks of deliberation, and a public vote to defederate feddit.org and we still get shit about being “authoritarians” or “manipulative”. L.W. just YOLO defederated an anarchist instance on the flimsiest excuse and…crickets.
We’re currently discussing how we will proceed with this situation
Block the mod on your personal list, don’t defederate?
So wait you’re just defeterating an entire instance just because the arch Zionist of this instance is having a bitch fit? I’d rather just get rid of him. Can we do that instead?
Just delete your Lemmy.world account and switch to another server.
Yeah but my way punishes the fascist loving asshole so… seems better.
Also why shouldn’t the .world users get to have a voice? Go through this thread they don’t like this Zionist piece of shit. Overwhelmingly so. So fuck him and fuck the little toads that defend him.
Also why shouldn’t the .world users get to have a voice?
i mean, they never had one to begin with, when was the last time the admins did a vote or follow popular consensus? the admins has shown they dont really care if they are unpopular
Unfortunately, L.w. was never run as a democracy
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